KCRag Forum

I think they need to make it so cars cannot at all get to the right curb lane at the first post. Need the two lanes coming in to get into the 4 lane section so there is bandwidth for them to spread out. When people stop right at that first post it backs up one lane back into the 2 lane before arrivals even if that person is actively picking up. Get those cars moving into the 4 lanes and it flows a lot better then people can go back to the curb around the 2nd post (this is from memory).

A crossing guard maybe necessary. Lot of people going to the garage and all those different commercial / shuttle options in the commercial lanes. Only people not crossing that street is people being picked up by a private car.

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:27 pm 4. I was kind of surprised by the volume of pedestrians walking from the garage into the terminal. Not seen that at KCI before (the outdoor approaches to the old terminal were normally bereft of people). It actually took some time getting past the crosswalks in our vehicle as we were leaving. Some drivers were impatient and entered the crosswalk with pedestrians very close at hand.

Hmm... I wonder is this is partially due to the underground tunnels connecting the old terminals to the parking garage.

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:59 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:27 pm 4. I was kind of surprised by the volume of pedestrians walking from the garage into the terminal. Not seen that at KCI before (the outdoor approaches to the old terminal were normally bereft of people). It actually took some time getting past the crosswalks in our vehicle as we were leaving. Some drivers were impatient and entered the crosswalk with pedestrians very close at hand.

Hmm... I wonder is this is partially due to the underground tunnels connecting the old terminals to the parking garage.

It's due to arrivals on that level and everybody needing any shuttle bus/taxi/uber/garage parking getting to the commercial lanes which are the 2nd and 3rd curbs after private cars.

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:59 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:27 pm 4. I was kind of surprised by the volume of pedestrians walking from the garage into the terminal. Not seen that at KCI before (the outdoor approaches to the old terminal were normally bereft of people). It actually took some time getting past the crosswalks in our vehicle as we were leaving. Some drivers were impatient and entered the crosswalk with pedestrians very close at hand.

Hmm... I wonder is this is partially due to the underground tunnels connecting the old terminals to the parking garage.

We anticipated this here, years ago, when the final design did not include pedestrian passage "tubes" to the parking garage. The tubes don't need to be fancy overhead structures above the departures level -- Seattle puts them on a mezzanine between departures and arrivals. They could have been physically attached to the underside of departures level (perhaps with expansion joints) to save structural engineering costs. Too late now.

It's not that big of an issue though and pretty common at airports all over, even much busier ones.

Just out of curiosity - it seems ever year or two there are tornado warnings that ended up sending airport customers into the tunnels to the parking garages at the old KCI. Where are the storm shelters in the new terminal?

kcjak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:49 am Just out of curiosity - it seems ever year or two there are tornado warnings that ended up sending airport customers into the tunnels to the parking garages at the old KCI. Where are the storm shelters in the new terminal?

Ground floor

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 6:48 pm I think they need to make it so cars cannot at all get to the right curb lane at the first post. Need the two lanes coming in to get into the 4 lane section so there is bandwidth for them to spread out.

They were doing just that when I was there on Tuesday.

Unrelated, DEN looks like shit now that I've experienced the new MCI.

AllThingsKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 8:59 pm

Highlander wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 5:27 pm 4. I was kind of surprised by the volume of pedestrians walking from the garage into the terminal. Not seen that at KCI before (the outdoor approaches to the old terminal were normally bereft of people). It actually took some time getting past the crosswalks in our vehicle as we were leaving. Some drivers were impatient and entered the crosswalk with pedestrians very close at hand.

Hmm... I wonder is this is partially due to the underground tunnels connecting the old terminals to the parking garage.

It's that and the concentration of people entering at one place instead of being spread out across two elongate terminals and I believe busses and and ubers dropping off at that point contribute to the flow of pedestrians. It certainly makes the airport seem like a busy place but drivers need to be patient.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:47 pm It's not that big of an issue though and pretty common at airports all over, even much busier ones.

Not really. Very few airports funnel so many pedestrians across surface crosswalks like the new KCI does.

There are not many problems with KCI, but that arrivals level was very poorly designed. All buses, shuttles etc (for both arrivals and departures) and everybody parking in the garage and surface lot behind it must cross there at grade cross walks. There is no tunnel or bridge. I predicted back when that plan came out that it would create problems.

And the lanes that come into the terminal/garage are just not well designed. It's very confusing and poorly signed and the lanes don't have enough separation or queuing room. That is mostly caused by cramming the new terminal into that area. Ideally the new terminal needed to be built further away like where terminal C is or in a new location south of the runways (original plan) to rebuild all the approach infrastructure properly to serve a single two level terminal and all that parking and get it away from the Paris Street interchange, but obviously that was not feasible.

It's not a huge deal and maybe a bridge or tunnel will help some, but I don't see that happening. I still think the shuttle drop offs should be on the departures level, but again, the poor design of the roads around the terminal don't have an efficient "return to terminal" route for buses to do a quick loop.

In general the signage at KCI is really bad for an airport. I have never seen an airport with such poorly marked rental car return for example.
This should say rental car return on it:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3106684 ... 384!8i8192

As should this overhead sign:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.3112623 ... 384!8i8192

All you have is this sign which is hard to see and easy to miss:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.311024, ... 384!8i8192

This poor signage seems to carry on to the new terminal and parking garage and all the existing signs and VMS boards were not redone for the new terminal. I mean they still have references to the three terminals either still on signs or just covered up. Why was that all not redone when you open a new 1.5 billion dollar terminal?

Again not a huge deal, but most airports have much better signage. I mean look at Indy: Well marked and clear:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6983136 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7035197 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.704192, ... 312!8i6656

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.707982, ... 384!8i8192

Two lanes each for arrivals and departures with well marked signs with plenty of room for queuing so if one is busy, it won't block the other. No room to do this at KCI because of Paris Street Probably would not have done it anyway if they can't even afford to redo the basic signage.
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7118765 ... 384!8i8192

KCI should have a bridge like this to the garage:
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7143349 ... 384!8i8192

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:36 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:47 pm It's not that big of an issue though and pretty common at airports all over, even much busier ones.

Not really. Very few airports funnel so many pedestrians across surface crosswalks like the new KCI does.

I feel like I have enough airports under my belt to respectfully disagree.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:36 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Apr 13, 2023 10:47 pm It's not that big of an issue though and pretty common at airports all over, even much busier ones.

It's not a huge deal and maybe a bridge or tunnel will help some, but I don't see that happening. I still think the shuttle drop offs should be on the departures level, but again, the poor design of the roads around the terminal don't have an efficient "return to terminal" route for buses to do a quick loop.

I don't think it's going to help enough for the cost. It isn't a big deal. We are sitting here nitpicking small stuff. A crossing guard during really busy arrivals time is much cheaper.

They could easily make a return to terminal better and should for the sake of private cars maybe but again I don't think it's a big enough airport traffic wise to necessitate this. Having one level by many, and your own account, for shuttles has been working great and making it very efficient.

Show me an airport of KCI's size or larger where nearly everybody that enters or exits the terminal except those being dropped off or picked up by private cars must cross a crosswalk on arrivals level.

You might find some I guess, but it's not common at all.

I'm not saying KCI is a bad airport. Just pointing out the flaws. The crosswalk thing is what it is. That's not going to change.

But KCI really could use much better signage. And long term, I would get rid of that Paris St exit and rebuild all that approach and return to terminal and rental car facility access infrastructure along with building a people mover to the RCF and economy parking.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:30 am I'm not saying KCI is a bad airport. Just pointing out the flaws. The crosswalk thing is what it is. That's not going to change.

But KCI really could use much better signage. And long term, I would get rid of that Paris St exit and rebuild all that approach and return to terminal and rental car facility access infrastructure along with building a people mover to the RCF and economy parking.

Agreed, the signage needs help. The other would be nice but I feel that's a pipe dream. Maybe could make Paris some fancy turnaround where the two lefts don't stop? not sure that's a traffic design thing out there.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Apr 14, 2023 10:27 am Show me an airport of KCI's size or larger where nearly everybody that enters or exits the terminal except those being dropped off or picked up by private cars must cross a crosswalk on arrivals level.

That is a lot of caveats for me to satisfy totally and I should know to not question these things with someone from Gri'd's professional background just saying I know I've been in a lot of terminals where there is a crosswalk lots of people have to use to get to the garage/shuttles/ubers because I've been annoyed waiting for them to cross or annoyed myself to get to an uber. Take that Indy example but they do have the elevated walkway to a much further away garage situation. Seems worse but doesn't satisfy the criteria. LAS, MSY, AUS, immediately came to mind when I first typed that.

I just flew to Austin, they are set up similar but arrivals and departures both have their own access to the garage, so half as many pedestrians crossing on one level. I know I'm just arguing to be arguing lol.

For the most part, the new terminal is perfectly fine. Every airports has flaws. I would fix the signs though. Wouldn't take much to clean those up.

The terminal reminds me of Southwest Florida International, which was built in 2005. It also has only crosswalks. It's been my experience that they usually have one or two cops monitoring traffic and the crosswalks.

Arrivals level: https://goo.gl/maps/kbma8Curx9J1dtCA9

Departures level: https://goo.gl/maps/Q1sLfmqQ8uX3bgDe6

They are planning to add four pedestrian bridges over the arrivals level into the terminal from the garage as part of an eventual terminal expansion project, though (see page 15): https://flylcpa.com/uploads/pagesfiles/4362.pdf

Saw this claim on a different message board. Seems to be too much of a broad generalization for me to take serious. Anyone hear anything similar?

I doubt that I am the only one hearing this but apparently the people who work at MCI dislike the new terminal quite a bit more than the old terminal. The claim seems to be that they did not take into account the typical day of anyone working there--- like at all. Apparently, everything is much more spread out and nothing is conveniently located to perform any task. We will see how this goes but I have not talked to a single person who works there that has given it a thumbs up--- and I have run across a few that have been quite negative.