Livestrong Sporting Park

[jdubwaldo]

Totally agreed GRID, shame on Cerner as well as city hall from letting this happen, no matter what the city of KCMO would have had to do to get Cerner somewhere in the vicinity of downtown with 4000 jobs (and e-tax payers!)  .

[GRID]

Totally agreed GRID, shame on Cerner as well as city hall from letting this happen, no matter what the city of KCMO would have had to do to get Cerner somewhere in the vicinity of downtown with 4000 jobs (and e-tax payers!)  .

That's just it.  I don't care about the stadium.  Hell, the stadium and long term success of the Wizards might work better out there anyway.

I'm just EXTREMELY disappointed in Cerner.  I honestly thought they were different and I was dead wrong.

KC so desperately needs some local corporations to step up.  Every time a company chooses to build on some undeveloped land along 435 (especially with excessive tax breaks) is one lost opportunity to to bring the "city" back.

Cerner could have built a tower in Downtown KCK even.  But out by the speedway?  There are thousands of undeveloped acres of land along 70 between 435 and Downtown.  VW is an isolated island.

So disappointed in Cerner it's hard to explain.  They had a chance to turn around an entire portion of the city that has hundreds of thousands of residents and existing infrastructure (SKC) or go into the city and build something downtown, crown center, plaza, I don't care.  Again, they could have been the one that was first to bring back downtown KCK, which is a total and complete embarrassment and such a wasted opportunity.

Oh well.  Now KC can keep talking about building transit to Village West even though the entire county barley has 150k people in it and most of it is very low density leap frog development.

Just don't get it.

When I say Omaha and OKC are closing the gap, I'm moslty talking about how their metro areas seem to be on one page, they generaly have far more civic pride as a whole and they have local companies that are stepping up and changing the faces of both towns and bringing them to the next level.

All while KC continues to take steps back and tries for dear life just to hang on to what they have.

[dangerboy]

So disappointed in Cerner it's hard to explain.  

Why did you think Cerner was more benevolent than any other company?  Nothing that I have seen about the company suggests this.  It is a very aggressive, hard-nosed company run by incredibly shrewd and hard-bargaining owners.  Why would an owner who personally surveys the parking lot to see who is working late choose a location out of the kindness of his heart?

Garmin might be the only big "local" company less engaged in local civic affairs.

[zonk]

Sounds like sour grapes.....quit whining.

Good for the Wizards.  Good for Cerner.  Good for WYCO.  Good for Kansas.  Village west is a much better location than Bannister anyway.  The critical mass of retail is already estalbished.  Anyway, KCMO has turned into a backwards-ass, hillbilly run government.  Any investment/developers are running the other way.  Serves them right. 

[rokhok]

GRID,

I was a bit harsh in my response so I apologize.  Unfortunately, the real solution to making this a true metro area is completely changing the government structure to better align the interests of someone in Overland Park with someone in Liberty instead of groupin OP with Salina just because it is all Kansas.... but that is a long way off if ever...

In the short term, the people of KCMO need to take full advantage of the next election cycle to get true vision people in city hall.  As a former crossroads resident, current Olathe resident and worker in Kansas City North, I am fully on board with the need for a strong core.  I love the fact that I have someplace as cool to go to as Manifesto, like I am tonight.  I just wish that we could all get on the same page as one metro instead of 2 states, 11 counties, 80+ cities, yada yada...

That's just it.  I don't care about the stadium.  Hell, the stadium and long term success of the Wizards might work better out there anyway.

I'm just EXTREMELY disappointed in Cerner.  I honestly thought they were different and I was dead wrong.

KC so desperately needs some local corporations to step up.  Every time a company chooses to build on some undeveloped land along 435 (especially with excessive tax breaks) is one lost opportunity to to bring the "city" back.

Cerner could have built a tower in Downtown KCK even.  But out by the speedway?  There are thousands of undeveloped acres of land along 70 between 435 and Downtown.  VW is an isolated island.

So disappointed in Cerner it's hard to explain.  They had a chance to turn around an entire portion of the city that has hundreds of thousands of residents and existing infrastructure (SKC) or go into the city and build something downtown, crown center, plaza, I don't care.  Again, they could have been the one that was first to bring back downtown KCK, which is a total and complete embarrassment and such a wasted opportunity.

Oh well.  Now KC can keep talking about building transit to Village West even though the entire county barley has 150k people in it and most of it is very low density leap frog development.

Just don't get it.

When I say Omaha and OKC are closing the gap, I'm moslty talking about how their metro areas seem to be on one page, they generaly have far more civic pride as a whole and they have local companies that are stepping up and changing the faces of both towns and bringing them to the next level.

All while KC continues to take steps back and tries for dear life just to hang on to what they have.

[KCPowercat]

I would love to understand how this is building on farmland...  I haven't seen much corn being planted on 10 acres across from NFM... and the Cerner buildings are going to be set up in a wooded area that adjoins 435.  Maybe your arguement about greenfield made sense before anything was built at VW but it seems hollow now that they are infilling inside the existing development...

You just come around in the past 5 years since VW?  Before the racetrack that was ALL farmland and small neighborhoods...it's still greenfields.  It's still not anywhere close to "infill"...

I hope they build it but let's not put makeup on the pig here.

[Highlander]

Sounds like sour grapes.....quit whining.

Good for the Wizards.  Good for Cerner.  Good for WYCO.  Good for Kansas.  Village west is a much better location than Bannister anyway.  The critical mass of retail is already estalbished.  Anyway, KCMO has turned into a backwards-ass, hillbilly run government.  Any investment/developers are running the other way.  Serves them right. 

I agree with the statement that Village West is a much better location than Bannister but, jeez, given the size of the prize here (Cerner, not the stadium), you would have thought the city could have found something that would have attracted Cerner (somewhere in the northland, part of East Village in downtown). 

KCMO seems to get wedded to concepts like revitalizing the Bannister Mall area.  That's probably not going to happen in anybody's lifetime here, I am afraid that ship has sailed.  It's too close to a relatively newly created swath of poverty and too far from any affluence.  Village West is easily accessed by JoCo and the northland and it's got a pretty good separation from KCK's poor areas, it doesn't take a high IQ to see what the preference was going to be.  Funk needs to think these things through and get off his keester and start pursuing economic development with a little realism and vigor.  I am not saying we need to give away the farm but holding Bannister Mall out as a pear is not going to attract many takers. 

[DaveKCMO]

that's funny. from my perspective, it appears giving away the farm was the only available next step. i really can't believe how many still believe that companies only exist to make money and have no additional obligations to their host communities.

[aknowledgeableperson]

i really can't believe how many still believe that companies only exist to make money and have no additional obligations to their host communities

in addition to taxes and fees that they are obligated to pay.

That obligation is a two-way street.

[zonk]

i really can't believe how many still believe that companies only exist to make money and have no additional obligations to their host communities.

Oh please.....i love all this righteous talk, but the bottom line is....companies are in business to make money.  PERIOD!  Do you think Cerner is in business to loose money?  Do you think Patterson/illig/Cerner/et.al.  bought the Wizards just for the fun of it?  Well some of that's probably true, but bottom line is they bought it as a business. PERIOD!  Frankly their level of investment into the KC Metro is extrordinary.  Why not try to support them instead of bashing them for a decision they think is best for them and their fans. 

[Highlander]

Oh please.....i love all this righteous talk, but the bottom line is....companies are in business to make money.  PERIOD! 

Making money adds to the health of the city....taxes, jobs, construction and more.  I suspect the management of Cerner view themselves as dedicated Kansas Citians but I also suspect their view of Kansas City trandscends state and municipal lines and is not as idealistic as Dave's or even mine.  I'd like to see these guys have the same agenda as myself when it comes to KC's urban core but they've got to please their stockholders and employees in addition to themselves. 

[DaveKCMO]

Oh please.....i love all this righteous talk, but the bottom line is....companies are in business to make money.  PERIOD!  Do you think Cerner is in business to loose money?  Do you think Patterson/illig/Cerner/et.al.  bought the Wizards just for the fun of it?  Well some of that's probably true, but bottom line is they bought it as a business. PERIOD!  Frankly their level of investment into the KC Metro is extrordinary.   Why not try to support them instead of bashing them for a decision they think is best for them and their fans.

prove that choosing VW over bannister would make cerner lose any money.

[aknowledgeableperson]

prove that choosing VW over bannister would make cerner lose any money.

Why don't you prove choosing BM over VW will make more money for Cerner?

[rokhok]

prove that choosing VW over bannister would make cerner lose any money.

This is the whole issue.. comparing the Bannister plan to the wyco plan isn't accurate.  The Bannister plan died as unworkable before the wyco plan was even discussed.  Wyco didn't "steal" 4000 jobs from KCMO. 

There was nothing preventing Cerner from building a campus in St. Louis.  Or Reston, VA.  Or anywhere else.

Why don't we reset the debate around the idea that wyco just CREATED 4000 jobs for the KC Metro.  Discuss.

[KCPowercat]

my entire issue is cerner let bannister plan die and never offered these 4000 additional jobs that they suddenly came up with for the new kck plan.  You can't convince me the bannister plan would have died with those new jobs promised.

lets set the debate this way...without the state line and cerner's ability to play states off each other for incentives...does the plan move from bannister to village west?

we all know that answer.

[rokhok]

It isn't as cut and dry as you make it.  For your argument to fly, the additional jobs would have had to provide the tax base to build the stadium, not the planned retail.  Well, by the time all 4000 jobs get there, the stadium will be at least 4 years old.  So explain how that would have been financed, given that it became IMPOSSIBLE to build enough retail to support the existing incentive offers at Bannister once the economy tanked.  What was going to support the bonds?

Also, I would love to have it explained how Cerner played off the state line issue when the Kansas total package is LESS than the Bannister one...  Isn't the more plausible answer that the KS package was actually viable where the MO one wasn't?

Do you really not think that if Cerner wanted to play the incentive game that they couldn't have drummed up interest in other metro areas?  Harley Davidson ring a bell?

The fact is that if KS hadn't stepped up, there would be zero chance of the wizards stadium being started in the next 12 months.  And any talk of what would have happened to the 4000 Cerner jobs would just be speculation.

I just find it amazing that the fact that the VW project has been so damned successful that they have the bond payback so far ahead of schedule that they could even finance this new project is so hard for some of you to admit, let alone applaud as successful development.  It seems like KCK and Leadwood are doing a great job of increasing the economic diversity of their development areas by adding commercialoffice use to existing retail areas making the combined areas more diverse and sustainable.  Yet some here want to call that bad.  I really don't get it.

my entire issue is Cerner let Bannister plan die and never offered these 4000 additional jobs that they suddenly came up with for the new kck plan.  You can't convince me the Bannister plan would have died with those new jobs promised.

lets set the debate this way...without the state line and Cerner's ability to play states off each other for incentives...does the plan move from Bannister to village west?

we all know that answer.

[KCPowercat]

you won't find many on here that will applaud sprawl...just kinda how this forum is focused.

I'm happy for wizards and their fans, I just think how cerner went about it wasn't a 'fair fight' for lack of a better term.

[jdubwaldo]

We need a "like" function on posts...   

[rokhok]

I undertand the anti-sprawl mix.  Hell, in most cases I am right there too.  In a perfect world if we could rebuild KC there would be a lot of things that could have been done different to improve things.  But that isn't reality and we should judge projects based on the real world, not an unrealistic world view.  If we judge it on reality, can we at least agree on the following:

* Even if the original decision to build Village West was sprawl, placing additional development within the confines of the original isn't sprawl, or at least it is maximizing the utility of the already committed sprawl.

* The only difference between Bannister Mall and VW as far as sprawl goes is about 30 years (They were BOTH surburban dev when created)
* It would be very hard (not saying impossible) to place all of the attractions, shops, etc of VW in the city core (and it isnt fair to cherry pick because the tax base to build much of it is all interrelated)

* The Bannister project wasn't workable in the near term no matter what happened with VW

* If the above is true regarding Bannister, VW potentially saved the wizards and 4000 Cerner jobs for KC (we will never know but it is possible)

you won't find many on here that will applaud sprawl...just kinda how this forum is focused.

I'm happy for wizards and their fans, I just think how cerner went about it wasn't a 'fair fight' for lack of a better term.

[KCPowercat]

we can't really agree on those points at all....