Sani wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:29 pm
My initial, emotional reaction as someone whose first job out of college was designing pages for The Star shortly after the new presses came online in 2006 is one of profound sadness at the thought of tearing that building down, but in a practical sense, it's a monument to corporate hubris and everything the newspaper industry did wrong in the decades after home computing and the internet first threatened to upend their business model. The fact that a $199-million, two-block-long building made of copper and glass had a useful life span of just over a decade is stunning, but honestly, tearing it down becomes the only sensible option, the longer you consider it. The inside was built for very specific industrial machinery and will be hard to modify for re-use.
On a more positive note, it's kind of stunning to look around the parking lot where I used to park, behind what is now Mission Taco and International Tap House, and see how much development has happened since I last parked there 14 years ago. I'm sure it'll be even more of a mindfuck for me to walk into 1729 Grand once it eventually reopens into whatever they make of it.
Does that thing have any internal columns? I still thought an aquarium would have worked there, but the KC Zoo is building a big aquarium now, so that's not an option. I don't think a retail market would make it there, so the only other thing it could be is maybe some sort of botanical gardens, which actually might really neat. It seems so wasteful to tear it down, but I would support tearing it down if a ballpark went there.
This downtown ballpark thing is pretty crazy till somebody from the Royals gives the public some sort of idea on what is happening. With all these potential locations, you have a huge portion of downtown in a holding pattern wondering where the stadium might go. Something needs to be announced so development can start happening in all of these areas.
I've looked and looked for any form of structural images or drawings of the printing press building with no luck. It appears to not be a clear span structure which makes options far more complicated and limited.
grovester wrote: ↑Mon Aug 29, 2022 8:14 pm
The stadium should be placed where it does the least harm.
Even if (hypothetically) one location is the difference between a mediocre success or a grand slam? *pardon the pun
Agree about least harm. We can try to get on base or we can risk striking out swinging for the fences.
If it goes to East Village there is a decent probability that the surrounding spinoff might be criticized as underwhelming. But the Battery in Atlanta has close to 600 residential units. Not saying I love everything... or much of anything about The Battery specifically. But say we get 800 residential units as part of the package. call it 1200 new residents. I'll take and be happy with 1200 new residents and development on empty lots inside the loop even if it doesn't include any marquee towers in phase 1 of the project.
The flip side of the coin is bulldozing a swath of a neighborhood that already has its own momentum, character and a high propensity for organic development if left alone. I'll just lay it out there that I have no attachment to to the Star building. It's proven very difficult to imagine a viable plan for reuse and while I would be open to such a reuse, if a proposal to demolish it and replace it with functioning businesses and or residential came along I would kiss it goodbye tomorrow. It's a huge obstruction to the flow and activation of the area. That being said, consolidating an even bigger superblock and replacing it with a stadium is not my idea of a solution to the problem it creates.
I like the idea of an urban ballpark for two reasons, accessibility and the possibility of adding new residents to the urban core as part of the project. The Crossroads is already primed as an the hippest neighborhood in the city and has arrived at that point from post industrial wasteland inside of 20 years. Left alone, the next 20 years will only see more development, more residents. The East Village will likely not see the same high quality urban development organically even if all the "landbanked" lots are suddenly unencumbered by the choice of a different ball park site. I don't know how to fully explain it but I feel dropping the ballpark down in the middle of Crossroads will suck the oxygen out the area. Everything will be different in the neighborhood in terms of what kind of businesses are incentivized to pop up (weigh more towards cookie cutter sports bars charging too much for Coors light and less towards say a club or small music venue for example) There will also be a greater lock in incentive for certain surface lots to remain parking.
We could have a over a thousand more residential units east of Oak in the loop due to this project both directly and as consequence or we could be lamenting the days before baseball came and changed everything abut a neighborhood we already loved. The thing about urban ballparks is that the stadium generally defines the neighborhood. The Crossroads is already about something, people. We don't need to make it about baseball. The East Village is about nothing. Here's a chance to make it about something.
Thank you for posting this. It is how I have been feeling but couldn’t quite put my finger on to say it nearly as articulately as you did. The crossroads doesn’t need the help of a stadium and a stadium could potentially move the crossroads vibe in a new direction that makes it LESS appealing.
AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 2:42 pm
Counterpoint: if done correctly (bricks) the Royals stadium could complement the Crossroads, enhance it & boost it as not just the hoppers district in KC but one of the most in the country.
Crossroads still has a shitload of lots to fill, and the stadium alone would fill a ton of them and probably lead to more being filled than before with residential. Also it would lead to high rise being placed correctly in the skyline across 670. That’s my pitch.
I disagree with all of this. I do not feel the design is the driver for opposition to a crossroads location. It is the type of businesses that will be drawn to the neighborhood and how they in turn will change the character of what has been going on. Would the current small breweries and restaurants (primarily locally owned) survive the rent increases? Not likely.
I also feel that the vacant parking lot owners will salivate at the idea of charging TSC parking fees to park in their lots for the life of the stadium. The lots will not be developed.
Edit to add…with an East Village location I can easily see it more positively impacting the east crossroads. I imagine the businesses offering shuttles from their businesses to the games in the same way Blue Line does to some hockey games and I believe No Other Pub does to Sporting games
Last edited by droopy on Tue Aug 30, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Something needs to be announced so development can start happening in all of these areas."
I really doubt any announcement will happen soon. I would imagine the team is still going through its many options and weighing potential costs and the plusses and minuses. And with the increased interest rates, inflation, and likely recession there could be a decision to slow things down and see what the future holds. Could also be a joint announcement with the Chiefs and Royals along with Jackson Count and KCMO as to TSC and a downtown stadium. Such as the Royals do move downtown, Kaufmann taken down, and JC and Chiefs plans for TSC.
If they do end up putting this thing in the Crossroads they had better SEAMLESSLY integrate it into the existing fabric - which will likely cost a ton of money. It can be done right but I think it would be a massive longshot to be pulled off. If it was pulled off though I feel like it could be an iconic stadium in MLB so it's a high risk and high reward spot in my eyes. It would need street facing interactions all around, consideration how to least disrupt the street grid (particularly the prospect of losing a major 670 crossing in Oak St), and how the immediate parking will work. The idea of integrating the printing press building as a concourse is an intriguing one for sure that I wouldn't mind at least seeing a concept drawing of.
Hopefully in the next couple of months we can all quit arguing about hypotheticals and start arguing about the best way to support whatever site gets chosen. Or short of that at least argue hypotheticals with a little more specificity to them.
If this stadium doesn't end up going in EV, I vote something like a Top Golf facility and outdoor recreational/sports vibe. Chicken N Pickle meets Top Golf. Some people on here will light me on fire after that comment but I want to crush golfballs while looking at our skyline.
While I still think the E. Crossroads site is a beautiful option, I understand the concern and reasoning some people would strongly oppose this. There's no buildings there historical enough to justify saving but a thoughtful case was made here about the current vibe and how disruptive it could be putting a stadium in the crossroads. That's something that registers a bit more for me. It's honestly one of those things I could see going either way, for good or worse but it might not be worth the risk.
In its current forum it just pairs so well with surrounding districts. Everyone has their niche and vibe yet play well with each other. Would hate to upset that balance because it's working.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm
If this stadium doesn't end up going in EV, I vote something like a Top Golf facility and outdoor recreational/sports vibe. Chicken N Pickle meets Top Golf. Some people on here will light me on fire after that comment but I want to crush golfballs while looking at our skyline.
If you really did want to put a topgolf downtown, you'd want it in the north loop. If in EV you'd be staring into the sun in the afternoon
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm
If this stadium doesn't end up going in EV, I vote something like a Top Golf facility and outdoor recreational/sports vibe. Chicken N Pickle meets Top Golf. Some people on here will light me on fire after that comment but I want to crush golfballs while looking at our skyline.
If you really did want to put a topgolf downtown, you'd want it in the north loop. If in EV you'd be staring into the sun in the afternoon
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm
If this stadium doesn't end up going in EV, I vote something like a Top Golf facility and outdoor recreational/sports vibe. Chicken N Pickle meets Top Golf. Some people on here will light me on fire after that comment but I want to crush golfballs while looking at our skyline.
If you really did want to put a topgolf downtown, you'd want it in the north loop. If in EV you'd be staring into the sun in the afternoon
This whole “sun” thing is a real pain in the ass.
Just realized every Top Golf I've been to is east west facing
Just use buildings to block them smh. Top Golf in KCK or West Bottoms might be more of what you are looking for now.
DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Aug 30, 2022 7:29 pm
While I still think the E. Crossroads site is a beautiful option, I understand the concern and reasoning some people would strongly oppose this. There's no buildings there historical enough to justify saving but a thoughtful case was made here about the current vibe and how disruptive it could be putting a stadium in the crossroads.
I think you're on the right track with Crossroads. East Crossroads is seeing development at a trickle. I truly think a well-done stadium would complement it if they do it seamlessly and designed well- not ruin the area.
Last edited by AlkaliAxel on Wed Aug 31, 2022 2:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
If we do end up in EV, I think you have to go full Oakland A's terminal project to make up for the lack of streetscape. No, I don't mean the whole $12 bil like they want. But I think you'd need a really modern sleek baseball stadium, and some sleek new-age highrise behind it. This way people would be too distracted by the magnificence of the stadium & highrise to notice the shitty streetscape and lack of urbanism. That's kinda what San Diego did to distract from their streetscape.
