KCRag Forum

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:49 am ^Bottom line, would have hardly any controversy if the project simply had broader public use element to it. Especially this building, which is perfect for a public market.

I don't think thats true. I think any project proposed with incentives today in that corridor will have immense (at least perceived and media playwise) push back.

But there is also nothing wrong with pushing for a public market type use of the Katz.

Maybe the pool can be like the zoo where every KC residents gets a one day free pass.

Has it even been confirmed that Lux is still pursuing this project?

Passed 9-4

No's were Ellington, Park-Shaw, O'neil, and Fowler

kboish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:22 pmPassed 9-4

Would think that Upfront Cash incentives are even more favorable to the developer than just the 15 year abatement.

Bunch is an idealist and still learning on the job. He realized he f’d up and changed course. I credit him for not digging in and making things worse.

normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:51 pm

kboish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:22 pmPassed 9-4

Would think that Upfront Cash incentives are even more favorable to the developer than just the 15 year abatement.

Thought about this more. As far as I understand, the developer ended up with a much better deal than before. Was Bunch playing 5D chess? No, but at least he was willing to change his mind.

3/4 no votes are completely against with no willingness to change their minds it seems.

This was a weird one. I am curiuous to hear Bunch's take, although I suspect he would perfer not to talk about it.

From the start, I thought this was a good project and deserved incentives to preserve and re-purpose a historic, long vacant/underused building. Glad it is now moving forward.

RE: conversation on public market. The LL doesn't really control who leases space or not. Hopefully a market of some kind goes in their retail space.

Sometimes you can't see where the cliff is until you start to slide. This was really the first development on Main post-streetcar vote. I'd guess that it kind of sets the bar on what developers can ask for and receive. Those levels will go down over time, but this set the initial market.

kboish wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:55 am Maybe the pool can be like the zoo where every KC residents gets a one day free pass.

My father recalls back in the 1930s, that Katz would put controversial items on the mezzanine at this location, near the fancy radio consoles where adults would linger. The mezzanine will of course soon be the deep end of this also controversial swimming pool.

Anyways, and apologies to Godwin's Law, around 1938 when the Munich conference was happening, Katz put a display of Mein Kampf books up there. (Yes, despite the owners religion) My Dad remembers it clearly (people were still "questioning" about German motives then -- this is before Kristallnacht and just after the Berlin Olympics).

No further comment, but felt this should be recorded for posterity after this interesting vote.

So what happened with Katz today? I've been behind on the news

herrfrank wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:04 pm
My father recalls back in the 1930s, that Katz would put controversial items on the mezzanine at this location, near the fancy radio consoles where adults would linger.

Very, very curious about "controversial items"!

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:25 pm So what happened with Katz today? I've been behind on the news

The city came back with a deal juicer then the original deal. It was approved by the full council.

If we didn’t have the streetcar, would this Katz property have even happened in the first place?

Old post card...

chaglang wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:10 pm

herrfrank wrote: ↑Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:04 pm
My father recalls back in the 1930s, that Katz would put controversial items on the mezzanine at this location, near the fancy radio consoles where adults would linger.

Very, very curious about "controversial items"!

I'll ask him what other controversial items he can remember besides the Hitler book -- but that was something that even then, the management didn't want on the main sales floor with all the kids. (Remember, that neighborhood was FULL of children in those days -- that was suburbia).

Bring back the neon cat on the corner. Not an overly expensive touch, would probably make the project more identifiable(cannot use the word "iconic") and liven up this historic street car retail node. As a young child my dad took me in here and we sat on stools at the grille and ate burgers. It is amazing the amount and variety of merchandise that was in this store when the footprint was smaller than it was before the rear addition. The mezzanine was small and the small basement had hardware/household/kitchen items.

Per my Dad, who lived nearby from the 1920s until the 1940s:

The basement had a large pet department "biggest in Kansas City" -- exotic birds, purebred dogs, unusual cats. Tanks of fish. Plus discounted clearance merchandise.

The mezzanine, which had a balcony, was where all the radio consoles and cabinets were marketed. (No televisions yet). Unusual or expensive items would be sold up there also. The top salesmen would circulate there.

The main floor was what you would expect: dry goods, magazines, sundries, candy, full-service soda counter (with kitchen and ice cream), pharmacist in the back. This was pre-aisle-and-end-cap retail -- lots of sales tables and small display cases. Sales staff in uniforms circulating constantly.

He said it was always packed even on Sunday, lots of kids from school (His were Bancroft Elementary, then Westport JH and HS class of 1945)

Love the post card and description of the old place. Must have been a treat to see back them. Glad we are able to at least save some of the facade and features of the old place as well as provide apartments for the next generation.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:26 pm

moderne wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 3:22 pm Historically until very recently there was a building taller than the proposed apartments almost directly across from Katz. It was an apartment with a curved facade just south of the grocery market. Would be nice to put a similar sized new building there. It would enclose the interesting little accidental piazza here with its collection of deco and moderne.

Anyone have pictures of this somewhere? Seems short sighted to have had it demolished, but I guess it depends on how many years ago it was demolished. It has to be before 2007 since Google Streetview shows the site you're talking about being a parking lot (as it is today).

This shows it in an aerial from 1991...

This building, The Montrose -- of almost perfect shape and size for that site -- was unceremoniously demolished in the late 1990s. It felt at the time ( I was living overseas and in Boston that decade ) that nobody was protecting the landmarks in Westport. About the same time the Deco streetcar overpass at 43d and Broadway was demolished.

I came home one Christmas quite disoriented by the missing landmarks compared to just one year before. ( My father's office was at 39th near B'way, so this was a frequent commute )

I am grateful that there are so many younger people now concerned about preserving the dwindling historical remains of old KC.