Downtown Baseball Stadium

[KCPowercat]

Not nearly wide enough. Not to mention getting rid of one of our last continuous built blocks in the crossroads.

Simply shocking what people are willing to get rid of

[AlkaliAxel]

Not nearly wide enough. Not to mention getting rid of one of our last continuous built blocks in the crossroads.

Simply shocking what people are willing to get rid of

Idk, it seems like sports architects can make just about anything work these days that they want. Especially since this is supposed to be small. And it would still be a continuous block, it would just be the outside of the stadium instead.

It's gotta be the yellow site though.

[alejandro46]

Not nearly wide enough. Not to mention getting rid of one of our last continuous built blocks in the crossroads.

Simply shocking what people are willing to get rid of

Idk, it seems like sports architects can make just about anything work these days that they want. Especially since this is supposed to be small. And it would still be a continuous block, it would just be the outside of the stadium instead.

It's gotta be the yellow site though.

I mean, if you had to cram a stadium in there, you'd have to build higher stands which would drive up the cost and comprimise viewing. There are always tradeoffs. I mean Target Field is on 9 acres, this site is significantly narrower than that. Would rather be in the 18&V than either Crossroads proposals. Just too many seperate landowners and historic buildings.

[AlkaliAxel]

Not nearly wide enough. Not to mention getting rid of one of our last continuous built blocks in the crossroads.

Simply shocking what people are willing to get rid of

Idk, it seems like sports architects can make just about anything work these days that they want. Especially since this is supposed to be small. And it would still be a continuous block, it would just be the outside of the stadium instead.

It's gotta be the yellow site though.

I mean, if you had to cram a stadium in there, you'd have to build higher stands which would drive up the cost and comprimise viewing. There are always tradeoffs. I mean Target Field is on 9 acres, this site is significantly narrower than that. Would rather be in the 18&V than either Crossroads proposals. Just too many seperate landowners and historic buildings.

I would just move it over Oak & halfway through the Locust bloc if they needed the room.

[KCDowntown]

Here is the high points of where I find EV a better site (if jail doesn't work)

• No teardowns of buildings. viable buildings that are currently being used and/or renovated for use.
• Property in friendly hands already
• Better access to established parking infrastructure
• Easy walk from Cordish'ville (close to same distance as E. Crossroads and better experience vs. highways - cap helps this)
• better access to highways (Go map The Pairing liquor store to points N/S/E/W of there to see what a cluster getting cars out of there will be)
• Ability to extend / improve / add businesses along the common walking path from rest of downtown (be that 12th or 13th).
• Equal access to streetcar and better access to other bus lines
• Help bring points further east into "downtown" \

the biggest downside I see is what others have mentioned it being surrounded by gov't buildings. That's true and that's not changing. That said there is some space still there for a couple businesses to pop up around the stadium and still close enough to feed into the entertainment district we have invested in.

Thanks for posting this. After so much back and forth it's hard to keep track of what everyone is thinking. So, here's my bullet points...

• I see the possible teardown of the former KCStar printing press building (which IMO is a terrible building and use of space) as a great opportunity to get two full blocks of close in real estate for a stadium. I'm willing to see some existing buildings get demolished for a site that I think will ultimately amplify the effects of the stadium for all of downtown even if it would be painful.
• I want the stadium as close to the streetcar and active parts of downtown as possible, so I'd choose the Jail Site above everything. If North Loop was a possibility, I'd choose that over EV too. I think a stadium could fit in the Jail site (but not north of the T-Mobile center like I also mentioned yesterday - I was wrong - a stadium here would have to have a green monster and a net to keep Traders on Grand from being pelted with baseballs)
• I think Collison is probably right in saying that the NE Crossroads site is being put out there by the owners of the printing press as the article mentions Burns & Mac, who studied the possibilities for the printing press, but not Populous. According to the CityScene article about the ATL stadium, the Royals are working with Populous.
• I think Cordish is probably involved with this somehow, so I have a hard time believing they'd pull for a site that competed with the P&L for foot traffic. BTW, Cordish has experience with ballpark developments too (they have 'Live' districts at the new stadiums in Atlanta and Arlington)
• I feel like the EV can't pull development to the east from the city center because so many blocks are blocked by government uses, which makes this a weaker site.
• I'd even consider far NE Crossroads over the EV because there are ample opportunities for the city to gradually develop west and south, especially if the I-670 cap is extended further east
• If it is the Jail site I think development on the block south of Traders on Grand and the old downtown library empty block could fill in
• I agree with DColeKC that if its EV that the Royals ownership will have a grand vision for a large development to the north that they own (If ATL is the model it reminds me of Park Place in Leawood)
• All of us, and definitely myself included, are probably not thinking enough about what will be easiest to sell to the taxpayers who will be footing some of the bill
• We are probably all wrong and they are going to put it somewhere we've all never talked about or considered

KCDowntown

[beautyfromashes]

see the possible teardown of the former KCStar printing press building (which IMO is a terrible building and use of space) as a great opportunity to get two full blocks of close in real estate for a stadium.

Wait, why would we tear down the print building? You'd use it as one of the concourses and add walk throughs to access the other side, you use it for team offices and concessions and retail. The stadium would butt up against it on the east side.

[AlkaliAxel]

I mean Target Field is on 9 acres, this site is significantly narrower than that.

Actually, this isn't correct. Target Field is an 8.5 acre site on 4 blocks. KCBJ says this site tearing down the KC Star & McGee would be 8.8 acres on 4 blocks- slightly bigger. This site would be about the same size as the Twins stadium, which actually proves that this could very likely hold a stadium for the Royals (and wouldn't even need the 40k seats that Target has)

There's no need to go east of this site and rip down far more buildings. It can fit. Build on Grand & tear down the Star building!

[KCPowercat]

Here is the high points of where I find EV a better site (if jail doesn't work)

• No teardowns of buildings. viable buildings that are currently being used and/or renovated for use.
• Property in friendly hands already
• Better access to established parking infrastructure
• Easy walk from Cordish'ville (close to same distance as E. Crossroads and better experience vs. highways - cap helps this)
• better access to highways (Go map The Pairing liquor store to points N/S/E/W of there to see what a cluster getting cars out of there will be)
• Ability to extend / improve / add businesses along the common walking path from rest of downtown (be that 12th or 13th).
• Equal access to streetcar and better access to other bus lines
• Help bring points further east into "downtown" \

the biggest downside I see is what others have mentioned it being surrounded by gov't buildings. That's true and that's not changing. That said there is some space still there for a couple businesses to pop up around the stadium and still close enough to feed into the entertainment district we have invested in.

Thanks for posting this. After so much back and forth it's hard to keep track of what everyone is thinking. So, here's my bullet points...

• I see the possible teardown of the former KCStar printing press building (which IMO is a terrible building and use of space) as a great opportunity to get two full blocks of close in real estate for a stadium. I'm willing to see some existing buildings get demolished for a site that I think will ultimately amplify the effects of the stadium for all of downtown even if it would be painful.
• I want the stadium as close to the streetcar and active parts of downtown as possible, so I'd choose the Jail Site above everything. If North Loop was a possibility, I'd choose that over EV too. I think a stadium could fit in the Jail site (but not north of the T-Mobile center like I also mentioned yesterday - I was wrong - a stadium here would have to have a green monster and a net to keep Traders on Grand from being pelted with baseballs)
• I think Collison is probably right in saying that the NE Crossroads site is being put out there by the owners of the printing press as the article mentions Burns & Mac, who studied the possibilities for the printing press, but not Populous. According to the CityScene article about the ATL stadium, the Royals are working with Populous.
• I think Cordish is probably involved with this somehow, so I have a hard time believing they'd pull for a site that competed with the P&L for foot traffic. BTW, Cordish has experience with ballpark developments too (they have 'Live' districts at the new stadiums in Atlanta and Arlington)
• I feel like the EV can't pull development to the east from the city center because so many blocks are blocked by government uses, which makes this a weaker site.
• I'd even consider far NE Crossroads over the EV because there are ample opportunities for the city to gradually develop west and south, especially if the I-670 cap is extended further east
• If it is the Jail site I think development on the block south of Traders on Grand and the old downtown library empty block could fill in
• I agree with DColeKC that if its EV that the Royals ownership will have a grand vision for a large development to the north that they own (If ATL is the model it reminds me of Park Place in Leawood)
• All of us, and definitely myself included, are probably not thinking enough about what will be easiest to sell to the taxpayers who will be footing some of the bill
• We are probably all wrong and they are going to put it somewhere we've all never talked about or considered

KCDowntown

Thanks. 8n don't disagree with you for the body part

[Rusty Irish]

That Cordish point is interesting r.e. having a hand in getting the Royals close to P&L. If TSC is developed it raise an interesting question as Cordish are far and away the biggest name in the game when it comes to stadium anchored development and its hard to envisage them pretty much competing against themselves. Maybe the likes of Kroenke or Bob Kraft would be tapped instead?

[TheBigChuckbowski]

If we're going to squeeze a stadium into two blocks along Grand, Washington Square Park is the far superior site. But, North Loop blows everything out of the water if paired with highway removal.

[AlkaliAxel]

If we're going to squeeze a stadium into two blocks along Grand, Washington Square Park is the far superior site. But, North Loop blows everything out of the water if paired with highway removal.

Not really, because the park would be right next to P&L and the south loop cap. Not to mention the Crossroads will give it a much more interesting urban character.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

If we're going to squeeze a stadium into two blocks along Grand, Washington Square Park is the far superior site. But, North Loop blows everything out of the water if paired with highway removal.

Not really, because the park would be right next to P&L and the south loop cap. Not to mention the Crossroads will give it a much more interesting urban character.

If we're talking about urban character/surroundings:

WSP: Crossroads, Union Station, Crown Center, Penn Valley Park, Liberty Memorial, Freight House.

NL: River Market, CBD, Garment District, redeveloped North Loop after highway removal, only 6 blocks from P&L.

Not sure how either Crossroads site is better than either of those, especially since the Crossroads sites require the removal of some of that urban fabric.

[AlkaliAxel]

If we're going to squeeze a stadium into two blocks along Grand, Washington Square Park is the far superior site. But, North Loop blows everything out of the water if paired with highway removal.

Not really, because the park would be right next to P&L and the south loop cap. Not to mention the Crossroads will give it a much more interesting urban character.

If we're talking about urban character/surroundings:

WSP: Crossroads, Union Station, Crown Center, Penn Valley Park, Liberty Memorial, Freight House.

NL: River Market, CBD, Garment District, redeveloped North Loop after highway removal, only 6 blocks from P&L.

Not sure how either Crossroads site is better than either of those, especially since the Crossroads sites require the removal of some of that urban fabric.

Because along Grand to Oak it’s not really much demolition outside the Star building. Which is a terrible building for a pedestrians. You’d lose a few old buildings on Grand, but mostly it would fill a giant surface lot and the Star’s site. 4 blocks total. It would be fully surrounded by density and the Cap, and close walkability into P&L

[TheBigChuckbowski]

Because along Grand to Oak it’s not really much demolition outside the Star building. Which is a terrible building for a pedestrians. You’d lose a few old buildings on Grand, but mostly it would fill a giant surface lot and the Star’s site. 4 blocks total. It would be fully surrounded by density and the Cap, and close walkability into P&L

Truman to 16th on Grand is not nothing. You may not like the businesses or whatever but we have very few blocks of uninterrupted retail that aren't part of a large development anywhere in KC. And, while the Star building is a terrible ped experience in its current form, there is ample opportunity to convert it to something that isn't. Not sure why everyone is so gung ho about tearing down a large attractive building. If this was the only site that made sense, then okay maybe, but it's not. There are three sites (north loop, wsp, jail) that are superior for both the long-term (post stadium construction) and short-term (assembling land and gaining political support).

[AlkaliAxel]

Truman to 16th on Grand is not nothing. You may not like the businesses or whatever but we have very few blocks of uninterrupted retail that aren't part of a large development anywhere in KC. And, while the Star building is a terrible ped experience in its current form, there is ample opportunity to convert it to something that isn't. Not sure why everyone is so gung ho about tearing down a large attractive building. If this was the only site that made sense, then okay maybe, but it's not. There are three sites (north loop, wsp, jail) that are superior for both the long-term (post stadium construction) and short-term (assembling land and gaining political support).

-I don't enjoy tearing down those buildings on Grand, but this benefit would far outweigh those buildings. Don't care about Star.
-This site would prevent many more buildings from having to be tore down in their more eastern Crossroads location
-This site would enhand the buildings on the west side of Grand, and frankly all of the Crossroads
-The site is even closer to P&L, the cap & the streetcar than any other
-I think this site would procure the best views
-This site should spur the highest amount of surface lot removal of any in the Crossroads, because it's closest to the middle of it & the streetcar, which create alot of dense walking

[DColeKC]

If the AT&T building wasn't a stick in the mud, this decision would be simple.

I understand it's mission critical but I also know it can be relocated and the needs of AT&T have dramatically changed in the last 50 years. Without the AT&T LL building, that site becomes my #1. The site directly north of T-Mobile is a great location but so tight, I'm not sure it can be done the way the Royals want to do it. My #2 is crossroads and #3 EV but anything further than EV shouldn't even be a consideration.

The crossroads site will face the NIMBY crowd and a small minority will oppose it even as the vast majority of crossroads support it.

It's interesting I've only seen two renderings prepared by architects and EV location wasn't one of them.

[DColeKC]

Because along Grand to Oak it’s not really much demolition outside the Star building. Which is a terrible building for a pedestrians. You’d lose a few old buildings on Grand, but mostly it would fill a giant surface lot and the Star’s site. 4 blocks total. It would be fully surrounded by density and the Cap, and close walkability into P&L

Truman to 16th on Grand is not nothing. You may not like the businesses or whatever but we have very few blocks of uninterrupted retail that aren't part of a large development anywhere in KC. And, while the Star building is a terrible ped experience in its current form, there is ample opportunity to convert it to something that isn't. Not sure why everyone is so gung ho about tearing down a large attractive building. If this was the only site that made sense, then okay maybe, but it's not. There are three sites (north loop, wsp, jail) that are superior for both the long-term (post stadium construction) and short-term (assembling land and gaining political support).

I believe the printing press building is turning out to be a good demo candidate because it will be VERY expensive to flip it into anything useable. It's not built to be a large clear span structure and has limited possibilities. Demolishing it would not be my preference for anything besides a stadium. I honestly think the newer Church is more of a roadblock on the Grand St site being floated.

[AlkaliAxel]

I honestly think the newer Church is more of a roadblock on the Grand St site being floated.

That Church is beyond loaded with money. This is one of their like 2 or 3 branches they already have. They can afford to take the hit, and knowing them they'll probably be supportive of the initiative anyway and can easily replace themselves somewhere else.

[Cratedigger]

It's interesting I've only seen two renderings prepared by architects and EV location wasn't one of them.

Populous has prepared EV renderings.

I have no idea where things are now but that site has been looked at by the Ownership group

[DColeKC]

It's interesting I've only seen two renderings prepared by architects and EV location wasn't one of them.

Populous has prepared EV renderings.

I have no idea where things are now but that site has been looked at by the Ownership group

For sure, I know it's been the most talked about location by ownership but I've only seen 2 renderings recently with the most recent one being the jail site. You have 3 main groups likely pushing different locations. Ownership, local government and invested 3rd party made up of existing development groups.