KCRag Forum

FangKC wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:22 pm I think instead of fast food let's say we need more take-out places downtown. Take-out is not necessarily McDonald's/Taco Bell/KFC. It's often better quality food that you can order and carry home in containers after work. I also think downtown desperately needs a good quality, old-fashioned diner that stays open until at least midnight or 1 am. No, Town Topic and Denny's don't count. There really aren't that many traditional diners in Kansas City anyway.

I'd say both. A chain fast food place has it's place in a highly functioning downtown

There are several major blocks that, when they are developed, need to have street level retail spaces designed specifically for restaurants.

Need more and smaller retail spaces to help keep rents down. Additionally, most restaurants shouldn't be 200 seats, but rather something considerably smaller. This would lower barriers to entry for entrepreneurs and increase variety for potential customers.

How the heck does Town Topic not count? That's as dinery a diner as ever dinered.

mean wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:48 am How the heck does Town Topic not count? That's as dinery a diner as ever dinered.

Sure, it counts. It's a little far from my house, but delicious.

smh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:35 am Need more and smaller retail spaces to help keep rents down. Additionally, most restaurants shouldn't be 200 seats, but rather something considerably smaller. This would lower barriers to entry for entrepreneurs and increase variety for potential customers.

The city market spaces are imho about the right size for this sort of thing.

Foodie halls seem to be the 'lower barrier entry' trend lately and another is coming downtown. KC does seem more obsessed with large restaurant spaces compared to most larger markets though. Rising lease rates might change that over time.

mean wrote: ↑Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:48 am How the heck does Town Topic not count? That's as dinery a diner as ever dinered.

I would call Town Topic a counter-type diner-lite. It doesn't have enough seating; doesn't have waitresses that serve your table, and doesn't have an extensive menu. It's basically a burger/chili/breakfast operation.There's nothing wrong with that. I'm talking about a diner that you can go eat several times a week and have a variety of choice, sit to eat, or get take-out.

http://www.m.towntopic.com/menu.html

Here are examples of a classic diner menu.

http://places.singleplatform.com/silve ... ref=google

https://citydiner.nyc/

Three different menus.

http://www.littlepolandnyc.com/

A return of a high profile 24 hour diner would be nice, like that Canadian one in P&L's BRGR spot - better quality but still basic diner. The streetcar didn't exist then and population is higher. Maybe at NW corner of 14th/Main across from movie theater?

Isn't that grad school place a diner?

Not sure I would call Grad School a diner. That said the Full Ride cheeseburger at Grad School may be the best burger I've ever eaten (not tried the Corvino/Ravenous counterpart, but want to!)

I guess what is or is not a "diner" is a matter of more debate than I thought. Prefab type structure with a counter were my main prereqs. Hayes Chili up north also seemed to me quintessentially dineresque.

Reviving this thread.

Urban Target seems to be highly desired still but what else desired at this time? Or missed that may have been lost from pandemic?

With downtown residential continuing to rise to 30K territory, seems more 24 hour diners would work at this point, perhaps one in RM and CBD each. Town Topic in Xroads apparently still 24 hours. I've noticed a modern 24 hour hair salon in Brooklyn, could downtown KC support that? Given streetcar doesn't run 24 hours might be difficult to pull off most types of biz.

Is there a good Indian restaurant that I've somehow missed?

TJ or Whole Foods. Modern condos or for-sale townhomes. Tech store

earthling wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 1:57 pm what else desired at this time? Or missed that may have been lost from pandemic?

A Best Buy. An Urban Target might be too small for the same scale of products and it's good for things you need today. They also don't have a store anywhere near downtown.

I would pick Hy-Vee over Whole Foods. I wouldn't complain over either but the scale of services from a Hy-Vee is needed downtown

Ramey Price Cutter would be good for Downtown so would Kroger coming back to area or Deibergs or Fresh Thyme Market or Meijer or others near by.

Any kind of national scale retail - Target, TJ, decent clothing retailers, etc. This will always be tough with plaza down the road (or rail) but needs to happen in some capacity.

More non-restaurant/bar entertainment options - sports (NBA/Royals/Sporting/??), outdoor recreation (Greenline, 670 lid, riverfront trails, major park improvements), cultural (Lumi Neon Museum, hugely improved Jazz Museum, Meow Wolf type experiential stuff, Rock Island Bridge, bring back American Royal).

(more) higher-end hotels and/or funky hotels (would love an ACE or similar) combined with amenities like those above. Would like to see DT finally grow into the absolute regional center and destination that it should be.

More Street Trees, more shade!

As someone who's been living in the Chicago loop for the past 6 months I've visited just about every urban target they have here. One would definitely work in KC- I believe it would do very well on the ground floor of the 12th/Grand tower (if ever built),Truman/Main development/one of the parking lots at the Kauffman stops, or if they combined all the retail spaces and allowed for a bi-level store- 14th/Main. Although the latter wouldn't happen as Cordish wouldn't cannibalize Cosentinos. But I can assure you these stores- even the smallest of the "small formats" have everything one needs from a grocery/cleaning/home goods perspective. My favorite store known as the "goth Target" at Madison/State is just 54000 sq/ft. of floor space (124k total with dock/storage) and from my experience, stocks everything of our suburban Targets.

Those would be my top three spots for ease of transit access, pedestrian experience, and overall addition to the neighborhood.

One of the challenges in location for a Target store will be delivery via trucks at loading docks.

I've been wondering about the former KC Star headquarters building at 18th and Grand as a site. There is one area inside that looks large enough. That building already had a loading dock setup at one time that could be reconfigured again.



There is also the former Star paper warehouse across Grand to the west that is now the Storage Mart business. It still has loading docks. That building looks large enough for a small store. The only issue there might be ceiling heights. I can't really tell if that was a two-story building, or one-story building that just had high ceilings that made it appear two-stories.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0934388 ... a=!3m1!1e3

Otherwise, you need to a new build-to-suit store.

The only other location I can think of that would be a ready-to-go setup with little modification would be the Halls store location at Crown Center. I have a feeling that Halls isn't going to be around much longer.

Downtown needs more ethnic variety in restaurants -- French, Indian, Mexican, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Thai, Italian, Greek, Middle Eastern, Caribbean, American South/Soul Food, Latin American, etc., and yes I think at least two late-night diners. Probably one in the Loop, and another somewhere in the Crossroads.

It also needs more variety in fast-food chains, and ones that can operate without drive-through setups. I'd like to see more fast-food restaurants configure an outdoor walk-up window situation where you can pickup your order on the sidewalk instead of a drive-through.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.933841 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9332253 ... 384!8i8192

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9388042 ... 384!8i8192

Allowing restaurants to have those permanent awnings over the sidewalk is a good idea for these types of restaurants because it provides shade in the summer and protection from rain on otherwise warm days and evenings. There has to be foresight though to design the sidewalks to be wide enough to still allow people room to pass the ordering windows and tables.

Maybe a better version of this. Except the restaurants have order windows to the patio area.

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.100150 ... 384!8i8192

We do need to loosen up immigration rules for those with experience running restaurants. The Greek economy has been terrible recently, so let a few Greeks into KCMO to operate their Greek diners.