KCRag Forum

aknowledgeableperson wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:KCI's "Fastness" and "Ease Of Use" is more than offset by long layovers at other airports.

But what were the conditions you endured at those long layovers at the other airports? I too had long waits at the other airports. Three hours but at least I had food nearby, didn't have to go through security again, easy access to restrooms and plenty of room to find a place to sit if not at my gate but in the walkway or at a nearby gate. And since I had to change planes I didn't have to go through another TSA security point.

I totally agree with you that other airports do have a lot more amenities that are better. On my most recent fight, weather at KCI and destination was perfectly fine while the weather at the layover airport was horrible and made us a day late. I would much rather spend a few more minutes at KCI and not have to spend 3 hours at another airport somewhere. An hour or 2 or 3 layover is much longer than any "increase" in time in line that a new KCI terminal would bring. The "Idea of KCI" is to go from Curb to Gate in a few steps, but what is the point if you are going to have a 3 hour layover before you get to your final destination.

The biggest thing that could help is to get the airlines to commit to a certain number of new daily direct flights to cities we don't have them today but only if we build new.

Frame it much like Geico does. 15 minutes can save you an hour or more waiting for your connecting flight

The question is really whether they can make money with those hypothetical flights, and whether the current facility can or can't accommodate. If it could, those flights would already exist. If it can't, then we have a decent argument.

My point is KCI is not set up to be a hub airport like so many of the others. Even if we take being a hub out of consideration it's setup is inferior to other airports except for the ease of getting into and out of. Not sure of how often this happens but if a flight going out is delayed one has to spend some time at the terminals. Spending time in the KCI terminals is not as pleasant of a time as spending time in other airport terminals. KCI makes a bad experience worse.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:My point is KCI is not set up to be a hub airport like so many of the others. Even if we take being a hub out of consideration it's setup is inferior to other airports except for the ease of getting into and out of. Not sure of how often this happens but if a flight going out is delayed one has to spend some time at the terminals. Spending time in the KCI terminals is not as pleasant of a time as spending time in other airport terminals. KCI makes a bad experience worse.

I'm saying we need a new KCI so that we have both a better experience as well as more direct flights.

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Spending time in the KCI terminals is not as pleasant of a time as spending time in other airport terminals. KCI makes a bad experience worse.

I'll grant you that if you agree in kind that KCI makes a good experience better. By good experience, I mean minimizing time in any airports or terminals.

Where I fly (South Florida, NYC, LAX, Chicago and Dallas), my primary airline offers nonstops (and easy upgrades) from KC. Arrived from LGA last Sunday 1/29/2017. I was in the back seat of the waiting black-car and en route to I-29 within two minutes of gate arrival and within five minutes of touchdown.

I left LaGuardia at the same time as a colleague en route to O'Hare. I arrived downtown KC well before he got to the Chicago Loop, 300+ miles closer to NY. LUVZ.

we're not building o'hare with a new terminal nor do we have chicago traffic.

minimizing time in airports would mean less connections....which we are losing to other cities....

herrfrank wrote:

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Spending time in the KCI terminals is not as pleasant of a time as spending time in other airport terminals. KCI makes a bad experience worse.

I'll grant you that if you agree in kind that KCI makes a good experience better. By good experience, I mean minimizing time in any airports or terminals.

Where I fly (South Florida, NYC, LAX, Chicago and Dallas), my primary airline offers nonstops (and easy upgrades) from KC. Arrived from LGA last Sunday 1/29/2017. I was in the back seat of the waiting black-car and en route to I-29 within two minutes of gate arrival and within five minutes of touchdown.

I left LaGuardia at the same time as a colleague en route to O'Hare. I arrived downtown KC well before he got to the Chicago Loop, 300+ miles closer to NY. LUVZ.

I already said:
"it's setup is inferior to other airports except for the ease of getting into and out of."

Of course if you have checked baggage your departure from the airport may be a different story. Broken belt in the baggage claim, couldn't fix so had to go to another claim station.

It's ease of getting in and out of exists between the front doors to the curb and only if you are being dropped off by a car.....The entire experience of getting in and out from your residence/hotel to the plane is average at best.

Let me elaborate on where I see inconveniences in the supposed easy in and out kci.

*Lack of walkable garage spaces (B is often full)
*Using any shuttle parking services, buses both pick up and drop off with the same buses causing slowness
*Again with shuttle parking services with multiple stops in each terminal, if you are at the end of the terminal, buses get filled with upstream customers
*Uber takes forever after getting car and no central meeting point that many airports are now employing
*No taxi line means picking up phone, extra wait, confusion on which cab is yours
*Unneeded traffic problems as pick ups and drop offs combined
*Not enough depth between walkways and where lines form for baggage check and security causes unnecessary congestion given our passenger load
*Security lines fluctuations and not able to handle demand
*No TSA precheck in all security lines
*Not enough room in holding pens

But yes physically walking from the curb to the door of the airport is super great....

Regarding ^, I have not had a problem with an Uber or a taxi. The Uber app always shows a lot of cars milling in the vicinity.

I usually arrange a private car (black-car), with a guarantee so that the car is waiting for me. I understand that the remote parking/ remote rental car shuttle adds time, but it would add time at any airport (the Seattle rental car process is really painful).

Traffic btw will be worse with the new terminal, because instead of 60 linear gates with perhaps 2000 feet of (shared) curb frontage, the new terminal would have perhaps 250 feet of dropoff space (upper level) and 250 feet of pickup space (lower level).

Agree that TSA and the holding pens inadequate, but again my primary criterion is and always will be time.

This shows that the issues work great if you're a select user.

Business users traveling carryon and not flying cheapest ticket possible when most people want to fly generally have a good experience.
Peak hours, checking luggage, with kids and such don't get a good experience.

I've never waited less than 10 minutes for an Uber. That's unacceptable.

While you are right there is technically more linear feet of curb space now as you know, only about 20% of that is actually used....Rest is dead space that doesn't equate to easy walk to the gate if you are picked up or dropped off there.

The new multi-level drop off/pick up would allow multiple lanes. appears that there would be significantly more spaces to drop off or pick up. This pic is from KSHB.

herrfrank wrote:

aknowledgeableperson wrote: Spending time in the KCI terminals is not as pleasant of a time as spending time in other airport terminals. KCI makes a bad experience worse.

I'll grant you that if you agree in kind that KCI makes a good experience better. By good experience, I mean minimizing time in any airports or terminals.

Where I fly (South Florida, NYC, LAX, Chicago and Dallas), my primary airline offers nonstops (and easy upgrades) from KC. Arrived from LGA last Sunday 1/29/2017. I was in the back seat of the waiting black-car and en route to I-29 within two minutes of gate arrival and within five minutes of touchdown.

I left LaGuardia at the same time as a colleague en route to O'Hare. I arrived downtown KC well before he got to the Chicago Loop, 300+ miles closer to NY. LUVZ.

First of all, most airports are easy to get out of if you do not check bags as long as you are not flying international and don't have to go through customs. But otherwise, I would suggest you are an outlier in the traveling population. Most people arrive well ahead of their flights and actually are willing to spend time in airports to assure an uneventful trip. I have had many a colleague miss a critical flight in Houston because they waited and got stuck in traffic on the way to the airport. That said, even if we wanted to, we cannot all take advantage of KCI's convenience, the convenience is there because security serves only a few gates and more importantly because most people are not outliers - they get to the airport well ahead of their flight. If everyone waited until the last minute, KCI's "convenience" would be a huge negative, every flight would be delayed because of security line issues due to the gate/security configuration. What is true is that walking is minimal at KCI compared to a lot of airports but that's like a 5 minutes savings compared to most other airports (and frankly, I enjoy the walk). When the new terminal comes (as it will), I suggest people feeling discomfort due to 2.5 minutes of additional walking get a Fitbit to help enjoy the new experience.

ldai_phs wrote:The new multi-level drop off/pick up would allow multiple lanes. appears that there would be significantly more spaces to drop off or pick up. This pic is from KSHB.

Yes. That's the way Houston works (and just about every other airport). Its crowded but the airport handles much more traffic than KCI and I've never had a problem with it. Actually, the only place I've ever had an issue with dropoff and pickup has been KCI.

Ever flown into LAX?

loftguy wrote:Ever flown into LAX?

One of the few major US airports I've not visited. But LA has 20 million people in the area, it's a very different situation than KC and KCI. Most big city airports I've been to in the US really are not that difficult to negotiate, obviously there are exceptions. Picking someone up or dropping them off at Houston, Dallas, Denver or most every other airport is pretty easy.

loftguy wrote:Ever flown into LAX?

I've actually never had an issue getting picked up or dropped off at LAX almost immediately, but that's just my personal experience. My friend lived near the airport, so traffic elsewhere in the city was never an issue. I'd text him when I landed, and he was outside ready to grab me as soon as I stepped outside. One of the around 4 or 5 times I've flown from there, the security line was pretty long, but TSA pre-check was like 30-40 people long in KC this morning at the Southwest entrance, which is longer than almost anywhere else I travel. They had three full lines of regular ID checks and had to hold the lines due to a backup in the scanning stations.

LAX has been a nightmare for arrivals for at least the last five years. It is now largely NO STOPPING curbside (in addition to No Parking and No Standing) on the lower level roadway. The upper departures level is a little better, but the whole experience is orders-of-magnitude worse than MCI or even a busier airport like JFK. LaGuardia is similar in its crappy arrivals experience.