Re: Status and future of the River Market area??
Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:04 am
Is that replacing the plaza and trees?
I understand this is complicated, but the old guys you refer to were the pioneers of downtown redevelopment. Is it possible to talk to these gentlemen about the decreasing demands for parking today as opposed to 40 years ago, without lawyers? These guys were urban idealists before some of the people on this forum were born. Maybe they would be open to civic cooperation, they certainly have shown a love for the River Market in the past.ToDactivist wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:59 pmOkay so b/c i broached the subject and to be more clear on parking "issues"...LotG and LotH (3rd/DE and large lot behind RM West streetcar stop respectively) were burdened in the 90's by Old Town Development Corp - old guys - who decided that these lots should forever (till 2050) hold un-dedciated spaces for 121 cars from Chase Lofts/Askew/Volker/Pacific. The lofts have ~ 250 spaces and yet each and every space is burdened and cannot be taken away nor can the 121 spaces be dedicated/reserved. Getting the idea here? Its not a council issue and the HOA issue is another story. Infilling on these lots means building a garage to accommodate the 121 + new tenants and some ambiguity on whether the 121 could just pack into the nice new garage. And no provision for construction re-location. And one of those entities is probably litigious. So smart attys at various expensive firms has thus far not found a solution. EDC can condemn potentially but at a cost and again it comes down to $$ to compensate for lost spaces/etc on a condemnation or $$$ on a parking garage that might hold 121 cars that get to park for free. (121 x $30K/space = a big number). I am thus dis-incentified to develop. Council will soon be made aware of this as we do believe the neighborhood benefits, so TBD on the end of this story....and yes something interesting this way comes...Rabble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:26 pm I’ve heard 2nd and Delaware has plenty of extra parking. Great, so they should reach an agreement with the owner of the lot on the SE corner of 2nd & D to take on those leased spaces. A new building on that surface lot could turn the intersection into one the most beautiful in the city.
Rabble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:46 pmI understand this is complicated, but the old guys you refer to were the pioneers of downtown redevelopment. Is it possible to talk to these gentlemen about the decreasing demands for parking today as opposed to 40 years ago, without lawyers? These guys were urban idealists before some of the people on this forum were born. Maybe they would be open to civic cooperation, they certainly have shown a love for the River Market in the past.ToDactivist wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:59 pmOkay so b/c i broached the subject and to be more clear on parking "issues"...LotG and LotH (3rd/DE and large lot behind RM West streetcar stop respectively) were burdened in the 90's by Old Town Development Corp - old guys - who decided that these lots should forever (till 2050) hold un-dedciated spaces for 121 cars from Chase Lofts/Askew/Volker/Pacific. The lofts have ~ 250 spaces and yet each and every space is burdened and cannot be taken away nor can the 121 spaces be dedicated/reserved. Getting the idea here? Its not a council issue and the HOA issue is another story. Infilling on these lots means building a garage to accommodate the 121 + new tenants and some ambiguity on whether the 121 could just pack into the nice new garage. And no provision for construction re-location. And one of those entities is probably litigious. So smart attys at various expensive firms has thus far not found a solution. EDC can condemn potentially but at a cost and again it comes down to $$ to compensate for lost spaces/etc on a condemnation or $$$ on a parking garage that might hold 121 cars that get to park for free. (121 x $30K/space = a big number). I am thus dis-incentified to develop. Council will soon be made aware of this as we do believe the neighborhood benefits, so TBD on the end of this story....and yes something interesting this way comes...Rabble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:26 pm I’ve heard 2nd and Delaware has plenty of extra parking. Great, so they should reach an agreement with the owner of the lot on the SE corner of 2nd & D to take on those leased spaces. A new building on that surface lot could turn the intersection into one the most beautiful in the city.
Singular entity and a lawyer and relatively good relationship however stuck in that no space should be removed, period. We exhaust all options. This is solvable over time. Recall I was suggesting patience while we do what we can elsewhere. I dont really appreciate the unexpected leak of the plans, however, as jumping in front of planning/civic/council can sometimes have adverse affects.Rabble wrote: ↑Fri Aug 06, 2021 6:46 pmI understand this is complicated, but the old guys you refer to were the pioneers of downtown redevelopment. Is it possible to talk to these gentlemen about the decreasing demands for parking today as opposed to 40 years ago, without lawyers? These guys were urban idealists before some of the people on this forum were born. Maybe they would be open to civic cooperation, they certainly have shown a love for the River Market in the past.ToDactivist wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:59 pmOkay so b/c i broached the subject and to be more clear on parking "issues"...LotG and LotH (3rd/DE and large lot behind RM West streetcar stop respectively) were burdened in the 90's by Old Town Development Corp - old guys - who decided that these lots should forever (till 2050) hold un-dedciated spaces for 121 cars from Chase Lofts/Askew/Volker/Pacific. The lofts have ~ 250 spaces and yet each and every space is burdened and cannot be taken away nor can the 121 spaces be dedicated/reserved. Getting the idea here? Its not a council issue and the HOA issue is another story. Infilling on these lots means building a garage to accommodate the 121 + new tenants and some ambiguity on whether the 121 could just pack into the nice new garage. And no provision for construction re-location. And one of those entities is probably litigious. So smart attys at various expensive firms has thus far not found a solution. EDC can condemn potentially but at a cost and again it comes down to $$ to compensate for lost spaces/etc on a condemnation or $$$ on a parking garage that might hold 121 cars that get to park for free. (121 x $30K/space = a big number). I am thus dis-incentified to develop. Council will soon be made aware of this as we do believe the neighborhood benefits, so TBD on the end of this story....and yes something interesting this way comes...Rabble wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:26 pm I’ve heard 2nd and Delaware has plenty of extra parking. Great, so they should reach an agreement with the owner of the lot on the SE corner of 2nd & D to take on those leased spaces. A new building on that surface lot could turn the intersection into one the most beautiful in the city.
I had permission to share them, but if they need to come down, that can happenToDactivist wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:23 amI dont really appreciate the unexpected leak of the plans, however, as jumping in front of planning/civic/council can sometimes have adverse affects.
lets not jinx this one. i'd apprecriate it for now and thanks.TheLastGentleman wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 11:05 amI had permission to share them, but if they need to come down, that can happenToDactivist wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 10:23 amI dont really appreciate the unexpected leak of the plans, however, as jumping in front of planning/civic/council can sometimes have adverse affects.
A preliminary plan set depicts a two-level building with twelve smaller tenant spaces totaling 2,520 square feet, 1,630 square feet of food and bar space and 2,440 square feet of outdoor dining areas and elevated decks.
Epoch Developments anticipates filing plans with Kansas City staff over the next few months and hopes to open The Market Commons in mid-2022.