KCRag Forum

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:50 pm

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 3:45 pm Well you also give just about every project a 10% chance of happening and most of them happened or are happening already

Not true at all. Give me some examples please. Pretty sure all the projects that I have thought had little chance of happening have not happened yet. For example, I never thought the Cordish towers would not happen. Not with the incentives they got. Although they have been scaled back even with incentives. One light was to be 35 floors for example till right before they broke ground. I'm just saying I don't think the numbers work in KC for larger buildings.

When i first joined the site you said the Royals were never going to move and the South Loop Cap wouldn't happen for a decade or more, off the top of my head. I'm sure more if I dug.

I'm sure that by the time the loop is done, it will be pretty close to a decade from when I said that. And that's a public project that the city is trying to push forward, so you never really know on those.

And I keep saying things about the Royals only based on what people in KC seem to want. A new stadium for the Royals may pass, but on the surface it sure as hell seems like the vast majority of people don't support a new stadium. Maybe they will once they figure out they don't have a choice. I am only saying what seems obvious.

And yes, I still wonder what will be developed around a new stadium, how long it would take and how urban it would be. That does not mean I don't support the idea of them moving. Right now, I would give the Royals a 50% chance of getting a vote passed for a new stadium.

I think you are confused. I am hard on some projects in KC.

I mean the Cerner project at Bannister. Jesus what a disaster.

Replacing the Broadway Bridge with another freaking freeway and more giant flyover ramps instead of removing it from the freeway system and spending that money on building a signature bridge and parks around it.

Building sporting KC's stadium in the middle of nowhere.

Not making the streetcar in a dedicated right of way.

I have been very supportive of the infill projects that happened and extremely disappointed when they don't. I really thought Mac would follow through on that project at Main and Armour as that would have been a game changer for midtown. I have also been supportive of other projects that have barley moved for decades like 3rd and Grand etc.

None of the vaporware projects have come through though. The 16th and Broadway, 12th and Grand, 13th and Main, 10th and Main ,27th and Grand, 31st and Main and more.

Other than Cordish, who has built anything substantial in KC meaning anything more than your 5 over ones? There are a ton of renderings out there, but nobody can pull off actually building these bigger projects. That's why I give this project little chance of happening. You can call me a hater for that I guess, but I just don't see anything that makes this project seem highly likely to get built. Or you would see actual national seasoned high rise developers doing projects in KC and not a St Louis low rise developer that is way over their head with this project.

This is why KC needs the stadium downtown though. You have to keep doing things to improve the KC market for this type of development.

Well LUX pulled out of their project in the riverfront. The port authority is looking for another developer for that site.

https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... amily.html

I really don't see how this tower project moves forward considering its scale and complexity is much greater than your typical Lux project and a a scale KC has yet to see. But I guess you have to try to stay positive.

I was really excited about this project. It would have been a pretty big game changer to get some bigger buildings up. Especially a mixed used tower (hotel/apartments). Again, I hope it still happens, but you got to wonder if this is something Lux has any chance of pulling off.

The only thing keeping me positive here is that the tax abatements have already been approved for this project. They were outright denied for the Berkeley River front project.

That said, your 10% chance of completion is probably correct--for all of the other reasons you stated above.

I don't think the tax abatements/incentives were approved by the City Council yet for this project. If they were, the typical opposition crowd was silent.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:56 pm I don't think the tax abatements/incentives were approved by the City Council yet for this project. If they were, the typical opposition crowd was silent.

It has at least cleared the LCRA. https://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/ ... hotel.html

I think they were approved by some committee, but not the full council.

The development plan is approved: https://clerk.kcmo.gov/LegislationDetai ... FullText=1

This area is already in the Central Business District Urban Renewal Area, doesn't need to be declared blighted. Council doesn't sign off on LCRA.

Incentives are set & building is approved.

This building is gonna happen. Far more effort has been put into this than the Riverfront Lux plan— which never has seen an inch of movement since its inception, and was nearly KO’d in the first place. Whether by Lux or not, this thing will move forward. It’s too prime of a spot now with the South Loop cap happening. Expect delays but just give it some time.

bspecht wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 6:49 pm The development plan is approved: https://clerk.kcmo.gov/LegislationDetai ... FullText=1

This area is already in the Central Business District Urban Renewal Area, doesn't need to be declared blighted. Council doesn't sign off on LCRA.

Incentives are set & building is approved.

TIF hearing november

TheUrbanRoo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2023 7:57 pm This building is gonna happen. Far more effort has been put into this than the Riverfront Lux plan— which never has seen an inch of movement since its inception, and was nearly KO’d in the first place. Whether by Lux or not, this thing will move forward. It’s too prime of a spot now with the South Loop cap happening. Expect delays but just give it some time.

Whether or not this building happens, I do agree that something will eventually happen on this site. As you said its too prime of a spot and the current owner likely does not want to own the property. That is, the owner is not a speculative holder.

Through some digging you can find that:

The owner is a Red Oak Capital debt fund who provided 4.8M in financing (short-term, 11% interest rate) in 2019 to an entity called Bravicci, LLC, in order to allow Bravicci to acquire the property. In December of 2021, due to being unable to make payments because Bravicci was unable to refinance or needed to triage their 12 affiliated KC area hotels--see, e.g., COVID19--, the Bravicci entity deeded the property to Red Oak Capital through what I assume was a deed in lieu of foreclosure. Red Oak, unlike some nonbank lenders, is not an operator, they appear to solely be a lender. They will be looking to make an exit on this property--whether through Lux or some other developer. Or they could sell to a parking lot mafia person. Let's hope not.


(of course many people have probably said similar things about the 12th & McGee vaporware site).

CityScene is reporting that Lux did drop the Riverfront project, but is still actively pursuing this one. It was reported that they've even had conversations with the committees as of this week.

Officially on the TIF agenda for tomorrow....

Given the likely expense in preparing for this hearing (and the developer pulling out from other sites), I would imagine this thing has serious legs, and is trending quite well barring a setback at the Council level. My understanding is that LCRA will not need to proceed through Council, but TIF will. But I am sure others know much better than me on this one.

Of note on the agenda:

Anticipated Sources of Funds and Evidence of Commitments to Finance: Developer has
submitted evidence of financing commitments.

Redevelopment Project Costs: The estimated Redevelopment Project Costs to implement
the Project Improvements and Public Improvements is $196,968,689, which includes
approximately $11,654,225 of construction financing interest costs.

Still inline with the reported 194 million this July.

Full agenda, with reported information here: https://edckc-tif.s3.us-east-1.amazonaw ... 821%29.pdf

TIF Board had a lengthy closed session and came back to say they require a new "but, for" financial analysis from SB Friedman for the project based on latest financing arrangements. A new report is anticipated to take 60+ days.

Based on that info, they moved to hold until Jan 9 meeting but got push back from Jeffery Williams at the City (and a TIF commissioner) for potentially causing issues with financing going into a new calendar year. In a split vote, 4-3, the board voted to hold until Jan 9 instead having on Dec 12 meeting.

Based on that info, they moved to hold until Jan 9 meeting but got push back from Jeffery Williams at the City (and a TIF commissioner) for potentially causing issues with financing going into a new calendar year. In a split vote, 4-3, the board voted to hold until Jan 9 instead having on Dec 12 meeting.

Somebody wants kickbacks. The TIF commissioner raises a valid point of the necessity for moving quickly and they defeat it, leaving the entire project in jeopardy. Here we have the biggest project currently under consideration and the city is playing games. THIS is why developers hate KCMO, in addition to KC having thousands of depraved criminals running the streets.

Gotta love keyboard warriors who love complaining about *everything*, but when it comes to things like "proving allegations with actual data" or "going to local government meetings to voice complaints directly to the people they presumably can't stand" or "running for public office" or "becoming a law enforcement officer to directly combat crime, or something", that's all too much work.

Jblanco wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 1:01 pm Here we have the biggest project currently under consideration and the city is playing games. THIS is why developers hate KCMO, in addition to KC having thousands of depraved criminals running the streets.

If developers hate KCMO so much, why do many continue proposing things and why have so many built things in spite of the crime? How come you don’t admit that economics (material prices, inflation, and interest rates) play far more of a role in development than city government? Is it because you want to set a narrative that the city is big, bad and dirty? Is it because you want to say that “Democrats can’t govern”? What is it? Tell us. Show us who you really are.

You completely forget the fact that Lux is under federal investigation right now, and that can play a role in this being kicked down the road again (even if not publicly admitted). Same goes for Lux dropping projects all over. Serious questions need to be raised about whether or now Lux can actually pull this off and build it. The last thing anyone wants is for this project to start, then be abandoned because funding dried up or the owners of the company were sent to prison.

If this were my forum, I would’ve banned you months ago for the utter stupidity you post often. You contribute nothing of value to the conversation and clearly have no grasp on how development works.

A city entity choosing to kick the can down the road on a major development project. Shocker.

I understand the need to be patient here, but requiring a new but for at what will likely be a 50k+ price tag is silly. Although I’m guessing (and hoping) that the financing commitments are either materially different than the previous but for, or more favorable for the developer. Otherwise if a new but for is being asked in substantially the same terms, we’re wasting so much money here.

For those complaining about the city, it’s worth keeping in mind that this thing has been on the the agenda since July and it has been Lux (I’m presuming from the continuances) that has not had their ducks in a row for this hearing. So a major part of the delay from LCRA->TIF has nothing to do with the city at all.

It’s clear this project has legitimate and serious financing commitments, and I’m assuming a flag commitment (don’t think you get to this point with our at least some sort of initial commitment from a hotel).

This project NEEDS to get across the finish line.

I, too, will be blocking the poster who seemingly comes here to call anyone not associated with his political party depraved criminals.