Downtown Baseball Stadium

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:52 pm

Hey, yeah, you're right. I didn't notice that. Ok, then it does face Downtown.

I don't know if I'd want to sit in a massive concrete/steel structure built by an architect that can't tell north from south.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:55 pm

This may be of interest to those of us that want a new stadium downtown.
STL rocks.....

The project site, from the northern edge of current Busch Stadium (Walnut Street) to the base of the elevated Interstate 40/64 highway (Poplar Street), gradually slopes down about 40 feet. This seemingly ordinary topographical fact creates a fantastic site condition for the New Ballpark that the architects have exploited in two ways.

First, by placing home plate in the southwest corner of the site and lowering seating and scoreboard heights in center field, the majority of spectators will have dramatic views of the Gateway Arch and the downtown St. Louis skyline.

Second, when Clark Street is "rebuilt" through the site after Busch Stadium comes down, fans and motorists traveling along Clark Street will be able to enjoy unobstructed views into the ballpark, including the playing field itself! These views will strengthen and extend the connection between the New Ballpark and the emerging urban neighborhood on the north side of Clark Street called Ballpark Village. Perhaps the best outfield views of all will be from the balconies and rooftops of the new buildings in the Ballpark Village.

The Cardinals intend to partner with developers to create a mix of uses in the Ballpark Village, including retail, entertainment, office, and residential facilities. A public plaza will provide a perfect gathering spot for fans before and after games. In addition, the Cardinals will locate their team museum -- one of the best in all of baseball -- in the Ballpark Village.

http://www.ballparkconstruction.com/new ... llpark.asp

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:19 pm

The STL stadium sounds fantastic...... So how does KC get MO money to do the same? Why can't anyone answer this??? I want to know WHY?? This whole thing is soooooo frustrating... But it is sooooo good to hear more and more support.... Amen Kemper the III !!!

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:25 pm

Can we go public with the website now? All sports talk shows talked about a downtown stadium today, it would be a good time to get a shout out to show off the number of people interested in this....... Just say the words.....

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:18 pm

Good lord, somebody post a link to the kc stadium site so I don't have to searcht through ten pages!

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:19 pm

http://www.kcdowntownstadiumnow.com/

Hope I'm not too late....

aknowledgeableperson · Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:04 am

In considering the possible location of any downtown stadium consideration should be given to where patrons can safely park and what the cost may be of any parking facilities.
Another consideration would be any possible infrastructure costs that would be needed - such as water lines, sewer lines, streets, highway ramps, etc.
And for now, a final consideration would be traffic. Just remember a few years back when there was an all day motivational seminar at Municipal Auditorium that started at 8:00am on a workday. For less than the five thousand people attending, the traffic jam extending from the streets around the arena to the highways was like a parking lot. Many other cities with the downtown stadium have a subway system or better public transportation than us.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:23 am

KC Kropf wrote:http://www.kcdowntownstadiumnow.com/

Hope I'm not too late....

Thanks, I was getting frustrated. I have no patience.

.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:28 am

KC has plenty of parking and will have plenty more in a few years.

Traffic? You are kidding right? Even during busiest times when there are major events taking place at the same time Downtown, traffic tie ups are hard to find. Broadway between 12th and 16th is about as bad as it gets Downtown. But the city is doing major studies right now on traffic and so is Modot (HNTB) (they are redesigning the loop right now).

But, a stadium will tax the street system and the exits to and from Downtown will not handle a ballpark without major upgrades. People will eventually figure out how to get Downtown without using the exits everyone uses like Broadway. People will also park all over the downtown/crown center area spreading out the impact.

60k work in the loop and another 40k work to the south. I think the area can handle 25k a night for a ball game with some street improvements.

aknowledgeableperson · Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:18 am

Yes, traffic can be bad. As for the example I used I was there in the middle of it. Traffic was stopped on Broadway, I was on the exit ramp to Broadway under Bartle for 30 minutes, and many others where late for work at the locations by Broadway north and south of Bartle.
As regards to parking, there is alot of parking downtown but depending on the location of the stadium the parking may not be in the right spot. For example, the picture in the paper this morning - how many parking spaces are within three blocks around the location? Not enough to support the stadium. And just think of the parking situation would be like on an opening season day game.
And the revenue losses for the Royals from the loss of parking receipts. My guess is that the team makes between $2.5 million to $3 million a year, if not more.
It is true that the Sports Complex is not in an ideal location but getting in and out there is so much easier than whatever can be developed downtown. No location is 100% perfect but if left to a vote of people attending games my guess is most would vote for the current location. They want to get there and in as fast as they can, and get out and home as fast as they can.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:50 am

You are right, most would vote for the current stadium until you explain to them the situation. I have brought up the subject to many family and friends and nearly all of them think I am crazy at first for wanting a downtown stadium, but after educating them on the money we would spend on one vs. the other and the different benefits of building a new downtown stadium, most quickly change their minds.

As far as parking, do you realize how far it is from the mid part of parking lot C to Kauffman? It would be like walking from Union Station to Bartle Hall, much further than three city blocks. Although the perception is different though and people will complain like always.

The biggest problem with traffic Downtown would be getting out of the garages, but it's a pain to get out of the parking lots at the complex too. Lot C once again can take an hour during a big crowd. After leaving, since the stadium in on one side of town, most people head back towards the metro area clogging 435 and 70 for miles.

Downtown has literally dozens of garages that should lesson that problem some instead of having one or two monster parking garages. Once out of the garages, the traffic will be able go in all directions and choose the path of least resistance. Dozens of major streets and freeways are in every direction that will take people to all parts of the metro. Many people would walk or take BRT to other parts of Downtown to retrieve cars as well depending on where the stadium is.

Problems like you mentioned can be fixed. Like the exit to Broadway from WB I-670, there is a double right there, but its poorly marked and nobody uses it. Downtown traffic flow could be improved significantly with well marked lane usage (double lefts & rights) and new interconnected signals (downtown is getting all new signals). Other things could be done to force people to use other exits besides the one they know about to get to the annual auto show.

Bi-State II is messed up. Jackson County is giving away the naming rights to the stadium to the Chiefs and Royals in addition to giving each team 200 million.

Naming rights and 200 million is nearly enough to build a new downtown ballpark alone.

Keeping the naming rights revenue and giving the Royals 300 million instead of 200 would be enough to build a new stadium. Then let the chiefs have 100 million and they can take their naming rights and do whatever they want.

The Royals donâ€™t make much on parking; they would more than make it up with a new revenue-generating stadium that would sell more tickets as well.

The chiefs make a ton on parking and they need the parking for tailgating anyway, another reason to leave them at the complex.

GRID · Post by **GRID** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:16 am

But the biggest reason to bring the stadium Downtown is to renovate Downtown and put KC back into the national spotlight as a large, vibrant and progressive metropolitan area. The city couldnâ€™t buy the exposure they would get. Most of those 2 million fans would not come Downtown otherwise and they will help support other attractions like Union Station, Liberty Memorial, 18th & Vine, Crown Center, River Market, KC Live, etc. Between the PAC, Bartle Hall, the new arena, a new ballpark and thousands of new residents, downtown would never be dead. That constant flow of people will keep places like KC Live open and successful. Other downtown attractions would bounce back and even expand, fixed guideway transit would finally become a viable option for the core and beyond, garages could be shared by all the venues, offices and residents. Hotels would fill up and more would be built. It would just be a tremendous snowball effect or shall I say avalanche.

Or we can hope to land couple more fast food joints at the Sports Complex and truly watch hundreds of millions go to those rich ballplayers because there will not be any spin-off development. Then in ten years, it will be Kemper Arena II. The Royals will have to have a new stadium, but the city will still have ten years of debt service on renovations.

It seems so obvious to me.

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:45 am

Bill Maas was MAJORLY talking up the downtown stadium idea on 61Sports yesterday. During the rush hourt part of the show...it was stadium/KCMO talk the whole time. Describing the article in The Star and saying that somebody needs to get organized and get this thing going. Basically said that every city he visits with Fox has a rejuvenated downtown and its time for KC to do the same.

Many KS callers had a lot of resentment towards KCMO and said they basically don't trust them with money. Maas reiterated that KCMO schools are completely separate from KCMO city council and said KS people go to the Plaza and don't say a word, but hesitate at supporting downtown.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 10:52 am

Why is it when these sports radio guys talk about downtown, they must diss it? When none of them actually GO THERE and know what's going on?

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 11:02 am

My main problem is that people like Maas, although they have good intentions, want our downtown to look like an outdoor mall or they just want to carbon-copy another city. They think Hooters, Hard Rock, and a bunch of sports fans constitute a thriving, vibrant area. I think there should be an element of testosterone-driven stuff, but it should be a place for every walk of life.

Some of these "sports guys" actually think we should just map out a parcel of land and level everything around it for the new stadium and surrounding development. They think everything we have is just a bunch of junk with vagrants and homeless people around it. Combining the surburban OP ethos with the urban ethos will be a serious challenge in planning a stadium downtown.

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 1:43 pm

GRID wrote:But the biggest reason to bring the stadium Downtown is to renovate Downtown and put KC back into the national spotlight as a large, vibrant and progressive metropolitan area. The city couldnâ€™t buy the exposure they would get.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!!!

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 2:21 pm

But the biggest reason to bring the stadium Downtown is to renovate Downtown and put KC back into the national spotlight as a large, vibrant and progressive metropolitan area. The city couldnâ€™t buy the exposure they would get.

Ich stimme vollstÃ¤ndig Ã¼berein Grid!

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:10 pm

back to parking: its not an issue. Between crown center, union station's new garage, and the addtional parking that will go in at KC live, there'd be plenty of parking. One of the desired side effects of a downtown ballpark would be people on the streets. So you'd have to walk 4 or 5 blocks, not a biggie. When the Harley-Davidson festival was here last year, they blocked off main st. for parking. they could do that again for overflow parking as needed. There would only need to be access to residents of Santa Fe apts, and the delivery garage for the Westin.

aknowledgeableperson · Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:01 am

If you watched channel 41 news last night Jack Harry really liked the current stadium and dissed the idea of having a stadium downtown. And there are many others like him.

Another thing to consider, renovating the current stadium as proposed would be financed by Bistate II - an area wide tax. If a downtown stadium is built how will it be financed? Do the supporters of this concept have any solid ideas of how to pay for it?

With regards to the parking issues. Do people really believe that if a stadium is built at 18th and Main the attendees will park at Crown Center? And if it is built by Crown Center do people really believe that attendees will park at 14th and Grand to support KC Live? I don't think so. And parking revenues are a major income stream for the Royals. Just figure - parking rate x number of cars per game x 81 games and it adds up. And the operating costs are not that much as compared to the revenues.

tat2kc · Post by **tat2kc** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:22 am

why wouldn't you park at crown center? its at 22st and grand. You're talking about walking 3 or 4 blocks at the most. I walk from 21st and wyandotte to 16th and walnut in 10 minutes. If a 4 block walk is too far for someone attending a sporting event, then I'd have to assume they have a disability and need handicapped parking, or that they are too dam lazy and scew em! Denver's ballpark does not have 30,000 parking spaces within a block or two of their urban setting, its a ridiculus assumption to think that a ballpark in an urban setting will have the level of parking that a suburban setting will have.

Kansas City is just too damn obsessed with the idea of parking within a few feet of the destination. We need to get off our fat asses and walk more than 100 feet to get somewhere!!