Re: Streetcar to the riverfront
Posted: Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 am
I'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
I'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
So you would exclude the disabled from having easy access to the park?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 amI'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
Yes that's exaclty my reasoning. That doesn't make a lick of sense.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:41 amSo you would exclude the disabled from having easy access to the park?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 amI'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
Also, where do you think the money is coming from to build a pedestrian path to the park?
The application made it sound like the $6 million bike/ped bridge will be funded by KCMO.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 amI'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
It appears that the longer option would cost about $10 million more then this short one. The goal may be to build some streetcar to spur additional development and then use those funds to finish the extension.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:54 amYes that's exaclty my reasoning. That doesn't make a lick of sense.flyingember wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:41 amSo you would exclude the disabled from having easy access to the park?KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 9:03 am
I'm souring on this whole extension. Seems silly at this point. Build a ped/bike along Grand and we can accomplish about the same thing.
Also, where do you think the money is coming from to build a pedestrian path to the park?
https://cityscenekc.com/breaking-feds-g ... streetcar/Gerend also told the board the Streetcar Authority may here back from Washington within two- to three weeks about its funding application for the separate plan to extend the streetcar line to Berkley Riverfront Park.)
Editorializing, I never really got on board with this extension path without the Casino portion. "The Urban Angle" posted a compelling argument to have a stop on the S. end of the HoA bridge with access to park via elevator and stairs to the lower landing. http://urbanangle.net/getting-riverfront-rail-right/ and focus instead to put this money towards crossing the bridge- long seen as an impassable financial obstacle. The problem is long term, we built to Berkley and then what? End of line- there are no expansion opportunities down there.The northern extension will not reach the Isle of Capri casino. Port KC, the landlord for the casino, envisions an eventual stop there that could serve as a transit hub, providing a place for riders to park their cars and hop on the streetcar to go downtown or board a bus for Kansas City International Airport.
Agreed, the bike bridge is the best part of this.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am I hate to be a debbie downer on this but I'm only really excited for the bike/ped path addition. Feel like the streetcar part is just going to add length to my trip.
Fact- frequency is a function of the number of vehicles running at once relative to the length of the track.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am I hate to be a debbie downer on this but I'm only really excited for the bike/ped path addition. Feel like the streetcar part is just going to add length to my trip.
There's a huge expansion opportunity down there.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am The problem is long term, we built to Berkley and then what? End of line- there are no expansion opportunities down there.
Well, dave always says rail is dead after river to UMKC....... IMHO, aside from east/west streetcar, any wider-reaching system should be comprised of lightrail and not streetcar. My vision is a Northland LRT line that runs down HOA down ok to CC and then out east or south or maybe even west.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am The problem is long term, we built to Berkley and then what? End of line- there are no expansion opportunities down there.
Didn't think about that. If you catch the streetcar on the south river market stop, it will go to riverfront and back.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am I hate to be a debbie downer on this but I'm only really excited for the bike/ped path addition. Feel like the streetcar part is just going to add length to my trip.
I think this is the biggest chance to improve upon. Let's NOT make it suburban style stuff. Not that I want to make this a new affordable housing bloc but we have a chance to create a lot of good housing here with higher density with this rail investment. That's been the big point on KC urban twitter since this announcementGRID wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:08 pmDidn't think about that. If you catch the streetcar on the south river market stop, it will go to riverfront and back.KCPowercat wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:31 am I hate to be a debbie downer on this but I'm only really excited for the bike/ped path addition. Feel like the streetcar part is just going to add length to my trip.
I honestly don't get the extension. The river front has very little room for major development and the development that is going in seems to be suburban style stuff that is way to low density to justify such an expense and it's only going to the foot of the grand bridge basically.
I agree and this does lay the foundation to get to the casino for an attraction and a park and ride. The Isle was just bought and new owners promise a huge improvement.If it went all the way to the casino and the casino was a true destination casino/resort hotel, not the joke that is there now and the riverfront was densely developed that would be different, but this makes little sense to me. Should have spent the money help push the line south of UMKC or across the MO river.
I don't think I used that word, but it's very unlikely given our land use and resulting low property values. Thus, regional funding would be the next method and you'll get all of the expected geographical infighting that will make any route choice... well, it won't be pretty.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:54 amWell, dave always says rail is dead after river to UMKC....... IMHO, aside from east/west streetcar, any wider-reaching system should be comprised of lightrail and not streetcar. My vision is a Northland LRT line that runs down HOA down ok to CC and then out east or south or maybe even west.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am The problem is long term, we built to Berkley and then what? End of line- there are no expansion opportunities down there.
That is not what Dave says, what he said was there is no chance of funding it under the current TDD model as there isn't the density to support it. But there are other funding models (full city tax, regional tax or county tax). Correct me if Im wrong Dave.normalthings wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:54 amWell, dave always says rail is dead after river to UMKC....... IMHO, aside from east/west streetcar, any wider-reaching system should be comprised of lightrail and not streetcar. My vision is a Northland LRT line that runs down HOA down ok to CC and then out east or south or maybe even west.alejandro46 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:22 am The problem is long term, we built to Berkley and then what? End of line- there are no expansion opportunities down there.
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