Bannister Mall/Cerner

[rxlexi]

Warwickland, I agree with everything stated. I would further add that this is one of those very few large-scale projects that has the potential to transform downtown, or anywhere else in the urban core for that matter - the mythical fast-growing local company looking for huge amounts of n/c office space in the city.

So very sad that not only is going in outside the urban core, it is also hugely incentivized and the site plan leaves so much to be desired. I think the city is so desperate to "fix" the Bannister site (and truth be told, there have been essentially no other options here, not that I give a shit) that they see this as a godsend.

Much like the Sprint Campus of 15 years ago, we KC urbanites will look back at this years from now, and our stagnant skyline, and wonder what could have been.

[aknowledgeableperson]

So very sad that not only is going in outside the urban core, it is also hugely incentivized and the site plan leaves so much to be desired. I think the city is so desperate to "fix" the Bannister site (and truth be told, there have been essentially no other options here, not that I give a shit) that they see this as a godsend.

This is a big city. Not big as in population but big in size. Good/bad, right/wrong the city has a responsibility to all areas in its domain. This area needs a shot in the arm and it looks like this is that shot.

Looking at what has happened with the soccer stadium in KCK it is a shame that it was not built at the Bannister site. Who knows where Cerner would have built this office complex, probably outside of KCMO, but it is where it is and will be of great benefit to the area around it as well as the city as a whole.

Personally, I too wish Cerner would consider garages (much like the Sprint campus) and bank some of the land for future uses. Given the current layout it would appear that there is some possible expansion of buildings along 435 and along 93rd St.

I think there is a very good chance that whatever is built there will look quite different than the current site plan.

[Highlander]

So very sad that not only is going in outside the urban core, it is also hugely incentivized and the site plan leaves so much to be desired. I think the city is so desperate to "fix" the Bannister site (and truth be told, there have been essentially no other options here, not that I give a shit) that they see this as a godsend.

This is a big city. Not big as in population but big in size. Good/bad, right/wrong the city has a responsibility to all areas in its domain. This area needs a shot in the arm and it looks like this is that shot.

Looking at what has happened with the soccer stadium in KCK it is a shame that it was not built at the Bannister site. Who knows where Cerner would have built this office complex, probably outside of KCMO, but it is where it is and will be of great benefit to the area around it as well as the city as a whole.

Personally, I too wish Cerner would consider garages (much like the Sprint campus) and bank some of the land for future uses. Given the current layout it would appear that there is some possible expansion of buildings along 435 and along 93rd St.

I think there is a very good chance that whatever is built there will look quite different than the current site plan.

That's pretty much the nonsense that has scattered KC's assets all over the city making them worthless in terms of being able to sustain any kind of development. So - we will go the next generation or two with little critical mass in the city itself. This is a colossal wasted opportunity being implemented by people with 1960's mentality.

The old military adage from Frederick the Great applies here:

"He who defends everything, defends nothing"

[aknowledgeableperson]

The problem is the political reality of the situation. Each area is looking for help.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The problem is the political reality of the situation. Each area is looking for help.

When you annex enough land to occupy a small northeastern state, you forfeit the reasonableness of trying to create major job centers in everyone's neighborhood.

[LenexatoKCMO]

The problem is the political reality of the situation. Each area is looking for help.

When you annex enough land to occupy a small northeastern state, you forfeit the reasonableness of trying to create major job centers in everyone's neighborhood.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It is what it is. Can't change the situation. The city cannot walk, or run, away from its responsibilities to its citizens.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Can't change the situation.

Good lord. Really? I guess we should all just give up on trying to improve on anything.

Continuing to undermine vibrance and intelligent development with dumb decisions gets us all a lot of crap.

Its called leadership. Demand it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

And for others leadership is looking at the city as a whole, not as a collection of unrelated individual parts. And that is what they demand. As some on the East Side and in the Northeast have demanded leadership to take care of those areas that have been neglected for so long. And some in the Northland and Southland have demanded the same.

[GRID]

This project proves that KC (at least its corporate mentality) is still stuck in the 1980's.

It's difficult to even comprehend or put into words what a missed opportunity this is becoming for the city. An investment like this only comes once or twice in a generation and if leveraged properly can change the direction of a city. This could and should be a game changer for downtown KC and finally give the city the boost it still so desperately needs. While KC has basically flipped its downtown, it’s still very far behind many, if not most major metro areas especially when it comes to corporate investment. KC is still suburbanizing compared to most cities today by continuing to place its attractions in far flung locations, loosing urban core jobs to the suburbs at alarming rates and not able to get any real progress made with transit and urban recreation, especially regionally. Even urban residential and gentrification in KC is actually pretty slow but is starting to pick up a little steam. Streetcar is a start, but that should be a small component of a much larger system by now. KC just continues to make the same mistakes over and over and over and will never create the critical mass it needs. Now there are major museums on 135th? The soccer team plays in Topeka, Downtown has lost half its workforce and yet you still see projects like this which get very little urban planning criticism outside forums like this.

If you are going to spend 2 billion in public funds to subsidize the shit out of yet another KC company, get something out it. Force them to go downtown. If downtown is not an option, then force the design of the project to actually have some sort of positive urban planning impact on South Kansas City. (I now you can't do this in KC because this only forces more development to Kansas) But still. As is, this will do absolutely nothing for KC except put even more tax burden on residents rather than developers and companies and promote suburban sprawl. The best the metro area will get out of this is more people living in JoCo, Cass County and Lee’s Summit. This will do nothing but pull commuters off 435. If done right, a project of this magnitude could have re branded the entire south Kansas City area. 2 billion in incentives and nothing but cheap office buildings and surface parking? No residential? No retail? No recreational improvements? No TOD, No mixed use or modern urban planning of any sort? It's not 1969 anymore.

Add this to the long list of mistakes that have and will continue to keep KC from ever reaching its potential. I love KC, always will, but good god, the place is so “stuck” in another era it seems.

[Highlander]

The problem is the political reality of the situation. Each area is looking for help.

What kind of help will the area get? Shiny new offices but little else. People will commute, when they go to lunch they will drive to Johnson County which is a quick hop along 435. They will arrive at 8 AM and leave at 5 PM.

The successor to Marion Labs have had essentially no influence on the greater Hickman area in terms of economic development. In fact, the area has gone downhill since the facilities have been built. We built two nice professional stadiums in east KC in the 70's and the development never came. There is no "shot in the arm" from these one-offs - if there is anything in the syringe, it's only a placebo.

Here's an example from Houston - quite a bit more economic growth than KC has. Exxon is moving from Greenspoint to the Woodlands to consolidate and because the area just continues to decline. They are the only show in Greenspoint and their 5000 well paid employees have had no impact on slowing the decline. Greenspoint Mall has essentially failed since Exxon arrived in the 80's. No critical mass. Not even Exxon could create that.

[kcmetro]

What is Cerner's phobia of downtown all about? They have employees scattered all over the place, but nothing downtown. Seems like building a high-rise downtown would be a good way to show off to the world while also attracting employees who only want to live/work in an urban setting.

[Highlander]

It is what it is. Can't change the situation. The city cannot walk, or run, away from its responsibilities to its citizens.

The responsibility is to make wise decisions with the city's wealth and assets, not chase a long proven losing proposition by throwing good money after bad. The city has absolutely no responsibility to bring office parks to all corners of its oversized and sprawling boundaries; that's plain stupid and the city does not have anywhere near the assets to do that. I suspect there is likely a political component to all this - show SE KC some love - but there is no gain to be had in terms of development and improving the life of those who live in the area. They won't be part of this in any way shape or form.

If there is a benefactor, it's the suburb of Lees Summit.

[im2kull]

What is Cerner's phobia of downtown all about? They have employees scattered all over the place, but nothing downtown. Seems like building a high-rise downtown would be a good way to show off to the world while also attracting employees who only want to live/work in an urban setting.

Same question I've had since they hit their growth spurt in the early 2000's. Makes absolutely no sense. The NKC hospital location gets a pass, but everything else...senseless.

Could you guys even imagine what a 4 BILLION dollar investment downtown would do? The arena and P&L wasn't even a 1 billion investment..

[Eon Blue]

I alternate between head-desking and crying when I read about what Amazon is doing in Seattle and then think about what Cerner is doing here.

[LenexatoKCMO]

What is Cerner's phobia of downtown all about? They have employees scattered all over the place, but nothing downtown. Seems like building a high-rise downtown would be a good way to show off to the world while also attracting employees who only want to live/work in an urban setting.

Same question I've had since they hit their growth spurt in the early 2000's. Makes absolutely no sense. The NKC hospital location gets a pass, but everything else...senseless.

Could you guys even imagine what a 4 BILLION dollar investment downtown would do? The arena and P&L wasn't even a 1 billion investment..

It is particularly puzzling given how much lip service they have given to needing to make KC competitive in attracting and retaining young tech minds. If that is really a priority, why are they continuing to develop infrastructure that appeals to AKP's demo and taste? I guess they haven't seen the memo that millenials don't like driving and bland suburbs and have been fleeing that lifestyle in droves.

[aknowledgeableperson]

It is what it is. Can't change the situation. The city cannot walk, or run, away from its responsibilities to its citizens.

I suspect there is likely a political component to all this - show SE KC some love - but there is no gain to be had in terms of development and improving the life of those who live in the area. They won't be part of this in any way shape or form.

If there is a benefactor, it's the suburb of Lees Summit.

No matter where you are at when it comes down to decisions like this that is all that it is - political. The mindset of most in this group is "New Urbanism" or whatever you want to call it. This is a small group. And this group looks out for its interests. The city as a whole is made up of similar small groups looking out for their interests. Of course there is always going to be conflicts between the many small groups because their interests will conflict at times.

I lived in the area for 14 years in the 70's and 80's. At that time the area was mostly middle class. Yes, you had the blue collar union guys but also many professionals. A next door neighbor was the top executive of the Federal Employees Credit Union, a council or two person lived nearby, even a few Chiefs and Royals players lived in the area. Can even include lawyers, doctors, and other professions. Bendix and other employers at the Troost complex employed many. The businesses located around 85th and Prospect (the end of the Dodson streetcar line) also employed many. Marion Labs at the time also employed many. I could go on-and-on but in summary at that time KCMO could be quite proud of the area and it was definitely a big asset to the city. Many items led to the areas downfall and a major one was a loss of jobs.

I find it hard to imagine that 100% of the future employees of this project will be thinking all the same. A few weeks ago there was a report about the number of metro area's gain in young adults. Guess what? Not all of them choose to live, for whatever reason, in KCMO's old, urban core. I would imagine guite a few went to the suburbs. And I take it some of these future employees will choose to live in the Hickman Mills area. Housing stock is good and cheap. Apt complexes are nearby. And the south KC area is close by and the expansion by B&V, or B&M, at Bannister and Wornall will further help in the rebirth of the area.

Much like the city's downtown and urban core areas that face a long climb ahead to come back so too does the Hickman Mills and south KC areas.

[NDTeve]

What is Cerner's phobia of downtown all about? They have employees scattered all over the place, but nothing downtown. Seems like building a high-rise downtown would be a good way to show off to the world while also attracting employees who only want to live/work in an urban setting.

Same question I've had since they hit their growth spurt in the early 2000's. Makes absolutely no sense. The NKC hospital location gets a pass, but everything else...senseless.

Could you guys even imagine what a 4 BILLION dollar investment downtown would do? The arena and P&L wasn't even a 1 billion investment..

It is particularly puzzling given how much lip service they have given to needing to make KC competitive in attracting and retaining young tech minds. If that is really a priority, why are they continuing to develop infrastructure that appeals to AKP's demo and taste? I guess they haven't seen the memo that millenials don't like driving and bland suburbs and have been fleeing that lifestyle in droves.

Well said.

[longviewmo]

There are quite a few college graduates that aspire to move to the likes of OP, Olathe, and Gardner. Acting like Cerner is going to suffer for lack of talent at this location? That's a little far-fetched.

[Highlander]

There are quite a few college graduates that aspire to move to the likes of OP, Olathe, and Gardner. Acting like Cerner is going to suffer for lack of talent at this location? That's a little far-fetched.

College grads mostly just want the jobs; there are far more graduates than decent jobs available. That said - at my company in quasi-suburban western Houston and you'll find the demographics of living units split pretty evenly: Over 40 - mostly live in the burbs although empty nesters are moving into the city to cut commute. Under 40 and nearly everyone lives in the city.