OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[DaveKCMO]

As posted elsewhere, we need local funding in place to fund operations. That's always been the biggest issue. When KC competes at the federal level, we win.

[DaveKCMO]

Sales taxes and assessments activated this evening by the Main Street Rail TDD board.
Next step is to set the downtown TDD rates to zero.

[KCPowercat]

So new TDD will pay at the end of this year or 2022?

[DaveKCMO]

So new TDD will pay at the end of this year or 2022?

The city will probably draw from both districts for awhile given that there are past due assessments downtown (even though rates will be zero) and it will take time for the new district to generate enough revenue to cover existing debt service and operations. Retailers don't automatically charge new sales taxes -- they have to be notified and implement the increase on their own, which isn't an overnight deal. There will be some direct outreach to major retailers and organizations like Plaza and Midtown KC Now to ensure their members and tenants are prepared.

The good news is that the sales tax revenue will come in first and that is expected to be the primary revenue source in the new district for some time. That may change depending on the intensity of new development and a couple of assessment rounds in the future. As with the downtown TDD, the pro forma for the new TDD assumes no growth.

The city holds all of the revenue in special TDD accounts even though the TDDs are two separate political subdivisions and are legally able to hold it themselves. There are also entities that need to be reimbursed for the costs of creating the new TDD (KCRTA and KCATA), in addition to existing and new debt service.

Also worth noting: The old district will require a public vote to terminate, perhaps in five years. The districts are being swapped and NOT combined, which was the plan. The city and PortKC control the downtown TDD and will determine when it's appropriate to conduct the termination vote.

[kcmiz]

Do these hyper-local special sales taxing authorities (TDD, CID, etc.) apply to the purchase of an automobile?

So say you live on the plaza, would you pay 8.85% (4.225% state + 4.625% local) or 11.xx% with all the special ones?

Streetcar is great, but these sales tax rates are getting egregious. I think many Kansas Citians don’t realize how high they are compared to the rest of the country.

Is there a online source to see what the total rates are by address? The MO Dept of Revenue site doesn’t seem to include special items.

[DaveKCMO]

Do these hyper-local special sales taxing authorities (TDD, CID, etc.) apply to the purchase of an automobile?

So say you live on the plaza, would you pay 8.85% (4.225% state + 4.625% local) or 11.xx% with all the special ones?

Streetcar is great, but these sales tax rates are getting egregious. I think many Kansas Citians don’t realize how high they are compared to the rest of the country.

Is there a online source to see what the total rates are by address? The MO Dept of Revenue site doesn’t seem to include special items.

Auto and gasoline are excluded from TDD sales taxes by statute. I'm pretty sure the legislature did that to avoid a "back door" for gas tax increases.

I don't recall if CID sales taxes apply to those items, but a quick Google search would probably answer that for you.

The highest rate would be inside a special district (TDD and/or CID) at a restaurant or hotel, so the average person isn't paying 11% for groceries or gas. Regardless, those living in the streetcar TDD are getting free public transportation in exchange for their sales tax and assessment contributions.

DOR has a list of all rates and special districts: https://dor.mo.gov/business/sales/rates/

[normalthings]

Do these hyper-local special sales taxing authorities (TDD, CID, etc.) apply to the purchase of an automobile?

So say you live on the plaza, would you pay 8.85% (4.225% state + 4.625% local) or 11.xx% with all the special ones?

Streetcar is great, but these sales tax rates are getting egregious. I think many Kansas Citians don’t realize how high they are compared to the rest of the country.

Is there a online source to see what the total rates are by address? The MO Dept of Revenue site doesn’t seem to include special items.

Auto and gasoline are excluded from TDD sales taxes by statute. I'm pretty sure the legislature did that to avoid a "back door" for gas tax increases.

I don't recall if CID sales taxes apply to those items, but a quick Google search would probably answer that for you.

The highest rate would be inside a special district (TDD and/or CID) at a restaurant or hotel, so the average person isn't paying 11% for groceries or gas. Regardless, those living in the streetcar TDD are getting free public transportation in exchange for their sales tax and assessment contributions.

DOR has a list of all rates and special districts: https://dor.mo.gov/business/sales/rates/

It costs $800+ a month to own and operate a car. A 1% sales tax is $10 per month for us to drop a car.

[DaveKCMO]

My family and at least two others in our building dropped one car from their household around when the streetcar arrived. Massive cost saving even if the car is "paid off".

[beautyfromashes]

So new TDD will pay at the end of this year or 2022?

Property tax increase this year or 2022 for district?

[flyingember]

It costs $800+ a month to own and operate a car. A 1% sales tax is $10 per month for us to drop a car.

I checked and ours in 2019 was under $400 per month without a car loan

[normalthings]

It costs $800+ a month to own and operate a car. A 1% sales tax is $10 per month for us to drop a car.

I checked and ours in 2019 was under $400 per month without a car loan

AAA estimated over $700 per month in 2017. I saw estimates a few weeks back that its now $800+

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... ZGYWiw1otP

[herrfrank]

^^^As with all personal $$$ metrics, the average is very different from the individual data points. Some people are incredibly frugal with their expenses, and others are spendthrift.

One person in my family drives an 80k car, and gets a new one every three years (lease). Between pass-through property tax plus significant (2k+ annually) insurance costs and gas, oil, carwash, parking.... He is out of pocket at least 1500 per month. My Dad paid cash in 1998 for his Camry which he uses spartanly to this day. Insurance and taxes are minimal. He is out of pocket less than 200 per month including amortization for the original purchase.

[normalthings]

^^^As with all personal $$$ metrics, the average is very different from the individual data points. Some people are incredibly frugal with their expenses, and others are spendthrift.

One person in my family drives an 80k car, and gets a new one every three years (lease). Between pass-through property tax plus significant (2k+ annually) insurance costs and gas, oil, carwash, parking.... He is out of pocket at least 1500 per month. My Dad paid cash in 1998 for his Camry which he uses spartanly to this day. Insurance and taxes are minimal. He is out of pocket less than 200 per month including amortization for the original purchase.

Certainly not trying to call him out. I just wanted to add a source

[KCPowercat]

So new TDD will pay at the end of this year or 2022?

Property tax increase this year or 2022 for district?

This was a better version of the question I was trying to ask

[DaveKCMO]

Special assessments will appear on the tax bill you receive at the end of 2021 -- new and old ratepayers will see "Main Street Rail TDD".

[beautyfromashes]

So new TDD will pay at the end of this year or 2022?

Property tax increase this year or 2022 for district?

This was a better version of the question I was trying to ask

Your original question was understood.

[normalthings]

New power systems permit?
https://compasskc.kcmo.org/EnerGov_Prod ... b=moreinfo

[chaglang]

Hopefully there's some coordination with the projects already happening on Main.

[herrfrank]

Some relevant pics in the album below, including two shots of the final run of the Country Club streetcar line on June 22, 1957. On the same roll of film, my Dad (pictured with his plane) took a shot of the North Loop being cleared downtown for I-70. La plus ca change...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Gic1KCoZ8KaDVEh79

[smh]

Unreal photos, thanks for sharing. Loved the Union Station one as well.