KCRag Forum

FooDoo wasn't on the Plaza, it was on Broadway and 36th

Until we can get the City to understand proper zoning guidelines near streetcar lines, I would fear any sale of park land, or redevelopment of it, right now. My fear is that a CVS/Walgreens would get built where the tennis courts are, surrounded by a big surface lot instead of a mixed-use block with buildings that included stores, apartments, offices, etc.

If residents are going to introduce voter initiatives forcing ordinances on elected city officials to do things, my one wish would be a change in the City Charter that anyone elected to city office must undergo ongoing classes in urban studies, and learn about public financing, land use, zoning, density, transit, how to properly use incentives, the importance of the historic built environment, the arts as a development tool, etc.

I don't believe one needs a degree in this area, but I do think elected officials would benefit, and the City would, if they were required to be schooled in these things.

Midtownkid wrote:I think it's beautiful to have tennis courts there instead of more trashy mall stores. It is the Country Club District after all.

Lets get all those vacant storefronts filled before we worry about tearing out our parks.

There are a ton of empty lots nearby, too.

+1

Is natural for Plaza stores to constantly rotate, even happened often during the hot late 90s. It will be years before there is a streetcar to Plaza. The tennis courts is on primo primo land. I would rather see the courts as some kind of mixed use residential/transit center/neighborhood retail eventually over tennis courts - if/when streetcar comes. The courts can be rebuilt to W of Plaza in median of Ward Parkway or near UMKC. The N end of Mill Creek Park is generally not heavily used, could maybe go there.

earthling wrote:Is natural for Plaza stores to constantly rotate, even happened often during the hot late 90s. It will be years before there is a streetcar to Plaza. The tennis courts is on primo primo land. I would rather see the courts as some kind of mixed use residential/transit center/neighborhood retail eventually over tennis courts - if/when streetcar comes. The courts can be rebuilt to W of Plaza in median of Ward Parkway or near UMKC. The N end of Mill Creek Park is generally not heavily used, could maybe go there.

so in other words, you're recommending they not be moved.

because that plan won't happen. the property value and resulting rent rates will mean it's only suited for high end retail. no one else could afford the spot. and just a CVS means it's going to look like the one at 39th.

any height of residential will get killed inside the plaza bowl as well. it would be four stories at most, so maybe 30 units. not enough to give up park land

as for a transit center, why would the KCATA need land for a bus terminal? they own the parking lot across the street. when the lease ends they can just take it back and put in bus stands. that they haven't used it shows there's not enough bus use at the area to need a terminal. and with the streetcar doing this would save a lot of money, especially since the KCATA doesn't have nearly enough funding right now.

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earthling wrote:It will be years before there is a streetcar to Plaza.

pick the year you think an election will happen then add 6.

DaveKCMO wrote:

earthling wrote:It will be years before there is a streetcar to Plaza.

pick the year you think an election will happen then add 6.

2023.......

I wish I did not have such faith in your opinion, Dave.

justin8216 wrote:Foodoo the vegetarian “earth grill" that opened last year on the plaza closed along with A/X Armani Exchange and so on...

Foodoo was a bit far away from the plaza.

DaveKCMO wrote:

earthling wrote:It will be years before there is a streetcar to Plaza.

pick the year you think an election will happen then add 6.

Besides writing up a new TDD and construction time, why would it take so long to build a line to the Plaza/UMKC? Utilities? Engineering? Even considering that, it seems like a pessimistic time frame. Despite the debate on a new TDD that I saw in the streetcar thread, it seems very likely that once the downtown streetcar opens, businesses and residents along Main in midtown are going to want to expedite an extension ASAP. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic?

But the Plaza is mostly awful and, all practicality aside, they should just build the streetcar up to my front door. That would be nice.

it's a realistic time frame. here's the timeline for the first 2 miles, which was "aggressive": http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18087

nooooo.....

Yes, but there should be some synergy created from the first line and you shouldn't have all the startup time to determine what system you are going to have, pick cars, maintenance facilities, court challenges, etc. Construction should go more quickly with workers who have already learned how to do the work with the first line. Also, studies have already been competed for the Phase II route. From your timeline, it looks like this might cut it down to 3 years after approved vote.

2020-2021 seems more likely in that case, although that was the projected completion date of the extension proposed in the August election. The time consumer in this case will probably be drawing up a new TDD and then more people complaining about paying an extra, what, $.008 on purchases and a small extra chunk on their annual property taxes. Wah wah wah

beautyfromashes wrote:Yes, but there should be some synergy created from the first line and you shouldn't have all the startup time to determine what system you are going to have, pick cars, maintenance facilities, court challenges, etc. Construction should go more quickly with workers who have already learned how to do the work with the first line. Also, studies have already been competed for the Phase II route. From your timeline, it looks like this might cut it down to 3 years after approved vote.

Your assumption would be wrong. History proves it out, here and elsewhere.

Curious. What is the lead time for getting cars?

And workers come and go. Besides, the work goes to the low bidder. There would be a good chance another construction firm gets the work.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Curious. What is the lead time for getting cars?

And workers come and go. Besides, the work goes to the low bidder. There would be a good chance another construction firm gets the work.

Yes, but the company that spent the initial outlay for tools, heavy equipment and supplies for the original project will have a cost advantage on any bid.

beautyfromashes wrote:

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Curious. What is the lead time for getting cars?

Yes, but the company that spent the initial outlay for tools, heavy equipment and supplies for the original project will have a cost advantage on any bid.

The vehicle purchase and bond sale that included their financing happened in October 2013
As I recall, the first train isn't expected until June at the soonest

14-18 months

And that's with the planning done by Cincinnati. So that's very quick.

Ingredient closed (permanently) today. Might have happened some time ago, but workers were moving out supplies over lunch.

studentper wrote:Ingredient closed (permanently) today. Might have happened some time ago, but workers were moving out supplies over lunch.

Bread & Butter Concepts (Gram & Dunn, Taco Republic, etc.) is opening Republica in that location. The Star said it would feature Spanish food with a twist - and not just tapas, thankfully.