KCRag Forum

Proposed alignment.



Survey link (w/ lane mix options): https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/EWStreetcar

More maps from Dave: https://x.com/kclightrail/status/1722679969145295068

Way too many stations spacing should be .4-.6 miles imho

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:21 pm Way too many stations spacing should be .4-.6 miles imho

This map shows you why that's not necessarily true. It's entirely possible Route 31 goes away since it's frequent (expensive) service and is too close to Linwood to retain. Gotta maintain access!

Will the station at Linwood also be a new station for the Main St streetcar? The concern I have for the overlapping route along Main from Linwood to 39th means that anything occuring on that stretch will close down both routes. A lot of infill is already happening along the Linwood corridor west of 71, this will supercharge that and push it east. What is the "transit center" at Van Brunt?"

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:21 pm Way too many stations spacing should be .4-.6 miles imho

The Linwood section has only one "extra" stop east of Gillham; otherwise, the spacing from Troost east would be 1/2 mile between all stops.

The Clark and Wyoming stops on the 39th St section could reasonably be combined, however.

Station location survey is now live: https://ridekc.org/planning/eastwesttransit

swid wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:04 pm

langosta wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:21 pm Way too many stations spacing should be .4-.6 miles imho

The Linwood section has only one "extra" stop east of Gillham; otherwise, the spacing from Troost east would be 1/2 mile between all stops.

The Clark and Wyoming stops on the 39th St section could reasonably be combined, however.

Note that we did combine stations on both the starter line and the Main Street Extension during/after the study phase.

I have questions.

This is terminating at Van Brunt? Not continuing on to Arrowhead and Rock Island Trail?

A Linwood routing will add another stop for the Main Street extension, slowing that route?
I don't understand why they don't go with 31st.

• No additional stops added to Main

• E 31st west of Troost already has some good chunks of pedestrian-oriented commercial buildings and businesses. Compare Lindwood & Gillham (7- 11, Church's Chicken, Jiffy Lube, Costco backside) to 31st & Gillham (Martini Corner, new multi-family under construction, El Torreon, etc)...it's no contest. Linwood can change but if current property owners don't sell we are stuck with a streetcar surrounded by fast food options and auto parts stores.

And minor, but they should shift Wyoming & Clark stops one block west to Genessee & Roanoke

• Genessee is more centrally located within the existing core of W 39th commercial storefronts

• Roanoke is closer to the eastern edge of pedestrian-oriented W 39th businesses, The Loretto is a more impressive landmark to stop at versus...the Q39 parking lot?

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:13 pm This is terminating at Van Brunt? Not continuing on to Arrowhead and Rock Island Trail?

THERE IS NO TRANSIT RIDERSHIP THERE*.

Sorry, but that's the truth. The Chiefs and the County need to really invest in a TSC redevelopment strategy that puts density and a mix of uses (housing, hotel, retail) that can sustain when there isn't a game and wouldn't require crossing I-70 or BR Cutoff. This is a good reason to support the Royals' departure!

The County also needs to get aggressive with developing downtown Raytown and other Rock Island nodes (Knobtown, Paragon Star) with lots more density. This is why the Rock Island Railroad failed, btw -- they picked a bad route with nothing on it. It will never score well for federal transit funding.

*The existing TSC service is via BR Cutoff and MLK/Cleaver.
Top

A few comments, 4 stops need to be removed due to prolixity to others. Those 4, in my book, are Wyoming, Gillham, Paseo, and Brooklyn*.

Next, the present-day boarding heat map shown in the presentation validates my belief that the best route would've been 39th-Broadway-31st as you have existing "hot" boarding stops at 39th/Broadway, Broadway/Armour, 31st/Broadway, 31st/Troost, 31st/Prospect, and 31st/Indiana. Why shift southward?

*- The Gillham stop should be removed and the Linwood and Main stop be shifted eastward a little bit so you don't create another stop on Main 2 blocks from 31st. The other stops I mentioned are already close to KUMed and Clark, Troost, and Prospect.

I agree that 31st would have made more sense on a few different levels. Consolidating a few stops should probably be in the cards. Want to know what the funding will look like. When is there a vote? Got to start educating the public on this in a bigger way. Sadly moved to Chicago so won't be able to vote in the affirmative for this. Maybe when I'm able to come back to KC this will be done or at least well underway!

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:24 pm *- The Gillham stop should be removed and the Linwood and Main stop be shifted eastward a little bit so you don't create another stop on Main 2 blocks from 31st. The other stops I mentioned are already close to KUMed and Clark, Troost, and Prospect.

The building stock around the Gillham stop makes this a very attractive stop to me. This area has been getting more and more active, and will only get more so with the addition of the Levy and the Aines Dairy Lofts. I think the stop here makes a lot of sense.

KCDowntown

No point in building the line if its curb running with frequent stops

Am I misremembering that the whole reason a Linwood stop was not included in the Main St extension was something along the lines of fulfilling a federal funding requirement to show reduced travel times over existing MAX service? It's ok to infill a stop later on if needed for a line transfer?

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 9:40 pm Am I misremembering that the whole reason a Linwood stop was not included in the Main St extension was something along the lines of fulfilling a federal funding requirement to show reduced travel times over existing MAX service? It's ok to infill a stop later on if needed for a line transfer?

During the meeting, it was said that Armour is the main transfer station and 39th secondary. I took that to mean Main Street Streetcar will not stop at Linwood.

How close are the proposed stations truly?

• Median Stop Distance: 1,820' or ~.34 miles

• Shortest Distance Between Stations:~1300' between Troost and Pase and Main and Broadway

• 6 Stations are 5 or less blocks (short side of the block) apart from the previous

• The median walk time between stations is 6-7 minutes using Transport For London's design metric for walk speed.

• Three Station pairs are a 4-5 minute walk apart

• The farthest two stations pairs are a 10-minute walk apart

• Given a 12-15 minute headway, most stations will be quicker to walk between

• 87.5% (all but two stations) are less than the standard (0.5 mile) transit station walk radius. The furthest two stations are ~.5 miles apart.

Critical_Mass wrote: ↑Thu Nov 09, 2023 4:13 pm I have questions.

This is terminating at Van Brunt? Not continuing on to Arrowhead and Rock Island Trail?

A Linwood routing will add another stop for the Main Street extension, slowing that route?
I don't understand why they don't go with 31st.

• No additional stops added to Main

• E 31st west of Troost already has some good chunks of pedestrian-oriented commercial buildings and businesses. Compare Lindwood & Gillham (7- 11, Church's Chicken, Jiffy Lube, Costco backside) to 31st & Gillham (Martini Corner, new multi-family under construction, El Torreon, etc)...it's no contest. Linwood can change but if current property owners don't sell we are stuck with a streetcar surrounded by fast food options and auto parts stores.

And minor, but they should shift Wyoming & Clark stops one block west to Genessee & Roanoke

• Genessee is more centrally located within the existing core of W 39th commercial storefronts

• Roanoke is closer to the eastern edge of pedestrian-oriented W 39th businesses, The Loretto is a more impressive landmark to stop at versus...the Q39 parking lot?

Having lived at 40th/Roanoke I agree that the Clark stop seems like it would be better by moving closer to Roanoke...that Q39 strip mall parking lot is a cluster during lunch, dinner and all day on the weekends and there's not much available space for a decent streetcar stop. Roanoke has some higher density development potential on the NE and SE corners (and possibly the NW corner) that might be better suited for stops than the Clark area.

Please be sure to leave your opinions about proposed station locations in the survey!

Why are they running it on Main in that N/S section rather than Broadway or Troost or something? Cost savings? That section of Broadway could really benefit from fixed rail. Same with Troost.

GRID wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 9:57 pm Why are they running it on Main in that N/S section rather than Broadway or Troost or something? Cost savings? That section of Broadway could really benefit from fixed rail. Same with Troost.

This was asked in the meeting. Emphasis was on #1 but I'm sure #2 plays a part

1. Operationally efficiency
1b. Ease of transfers
1c. Travel time from 39th corridor to the south
2. Cost Savings