Downtown Baseball Stadium

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:00 pm

If Hartford lands the Expos, they want to build "34,000-seat stadium that because of its relatively small size would drive up demand for season tickets."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1761050

aknowledgeableperson · Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:05 am

It makes no sense to build a small stadium. The Royals want to draw at least 2,000,000 a year. Divide that by 81 homes games and that is an average of 24,691 per game. That means many games with attendance of 30,000 and even more. Besides, the cost savings of building a small seating stadium would not be all that great over a stadium with seating of 35,000.
And what is this talk of building an baseball stadium downtown? The Royals want to stay where they are. So are these downtown stadium talkers thinking of having another team?

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:39 pm

It makes no sense to build a small stadium. The Royals want to draw at least 2,000,000 a year. Divide that by 81 homes games and that is an average of 24,691 per game. That means many games with attendance of 30,000 and even more. Besides, the cost savings of building a small seating stadium would not be all that great over a stadium with seating of 35,000.

My point exactly, anyone pushing a tiny stadium doesn't understand the numbers of MLB.

And what is this talk of building an baseball stadium downtown? The Royals want to stay where they are. So are these downtown stadium talkers thinking of having another team?

30 yr old Kaufmann happens to be thier only choice. The Royals actually are demanding costly changes to Kaufmann, which The Jackson Cty Sports Authority has conceded to at tremendous cost; around 150 mm plus interest. Many people on this forum would rather spend 350mm on a brand new stadium downtown, where you can have a critical mass of KC destinations like Union Station, Crown Center and the Crosstown Arts District. This would create an 'urban ballpark neighborhood' and bring thousands of people downtown 82 times a year for an 'overall experience'. Many on this forum believe that would be better than the 'see-the-game-and-go-straight-back-to-your-ranch-style-morbid-pathetic-suburban-existence' we have right now with Kaufmann being stuck in no-wheresville. Put that on your knowledgable hard drive and spin.

aknowledgeableperson · Sat Mar 20, 2004 4:01 pm

So you would rather spend $350,000,000 (plus interest) instead of $150,000,000 plus interest. Where would the extra $200,000,000 plus the additional interest cost come from? The Royals organization still is content where they are. Besides, the cost of the new stadium should be in excess of $350,000,000 because of the cost of parking. Right now the Royals control all of the parking where they are at. Moved downtown then they lose a chunk of revenue because others will have a piece of the parking pie.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 4:38 pm

Right now the Royals control all of the parking where they are at.

I didn't know that, I assumed the city/county controlled parking? I would welcome proof that the Royals control parking at The K.

Regardless of who controls parking, there is enough existing parking within 3 blocks of Washington Square Park to accomadate 20-30,000 after-hours visitors without building ANY additional parking. A new baseball stadium downtown would also encourage a light-rail project from the City Market to the Plaza. $350 mm is an estimate of a new stadium based on what other cities have spent recently, which includes parking.

The additional dollars spent on a new stadium would be easier to raise and a better spend than 150 million on a few more restrooms and a wider concourse at the K. Kaufmann will need to be replaced within 10 years anyway, it will be completely out of date for baseball in 2014. We may have to spend a billion $$ then. If we build downtown now, it will give downtown KC a tremendous boost and bring the national spotlight to downtown KC, right now the K brings NO national spotlight to downtown. The country probably thinks KC is one big I-70 looking parking lot right now becasue of the ridiculous location of truman.

KC0KEK · Post by **KC0KEK** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:13 pm

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Kaufmann will need to be replaced within 10 years anyway, it will be completely out of date for baseball in 2014.

Unless baseball is a completely different game -- such as a markedly different field size -- I don't see how that could be the case. If by "out of date" you mean behind the one-upmanship of fancier digs, sure. But that would be the case with a stadium built today.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 5:51 pm

Kaufmann will be 40 years old & will need major infrastructure work by 2014. New seating, escalators, parking lot repairs, completely new wiring technology, multimedia equipment throughout including new big screen and other amenities that technology will bring in 10 years. It is stupidity to spend hundreds of millions every few years on a suburban dinosaur, no matter how unique it was in 1973, when you can build a brand new, high-tech facility in downtown, where a Royals game becomes 'an experience'. The emphasis and the point should be about the baseball game and the enjoyment it gives us. A downtown stadium enhances that experience 100 fold with the incredible amenities within walking distance; Crown Center, Union Station, Freighthouse District, etc. WHILE maximizing the benefit of bringing thousands of people downtown 82 times a year. Add to that a Baseball Park neighborhood feel and the tons of new residential high and midrises, the new hotels and the exposure downtown will get is immeasurable. If you can't understand that, you are brain-dead.

aknowledgeableperson · Sun Mar 21, 2004 8:28 pm

LyRiCaL GanGsTa wrote:Kaufmann will be 40 years old & will need major infrastructure work by 2014. New seating, escalators, parking lot repairs, completely new wiring technology, multimedia equipment throughout including new big screen and other amenities that technology will bring in 10 years. It is stupidity to spend hundreds of millions every few years on a suburban dinosaur, no matter how unique it was in 1973, when you can build a brand new, high-tech facility in downtown, where a Royals game becomes 'an experience'. The emphasis and the point should be about the baseball game and the enjoyment it gives us. A downtown stadium enhances that experience 100 fold with the incredible amenities within walking distance; Crown Center, Union Station, Freighthouse District, etc. WHILE maximizing the benefit of bringing thousands of people downtown 82 times a year. Add to that a Baseball Park neighborhood feel and the tons of new residential high and midrises, the new hotels and the exposure downtown will get is immeasurable. If you can't understand that, you are brain-dead.

Although in ten years Kaufmam stadium will be 40 years old much of it will not be. Renovations have been going on during the past 30 years. The seating is just a few years old. If the parking lot needs repairs that would also benefit the Chiefs. Escalators are cheap relative to the total cost. Technology is technology. But the main point to make is that it is cheaper to renovate what is already there than to build new. At this time neither Jackson County, which built the stadiums, nor Kansas City is flush with money. And they wont be for many years to come. So the best thing to use would be Bistate II and I don't see that happening because of the additional cost of a new stadium and other area wide committments to Bistate II (if it ever gets to a vote).
Hey, if the area was flush with funds then why not do it and many other things the area needs. But the reality is the funds are not there.
And it is true. The Royals control the parking lots for their games and the Chiefs control the lots for their games. All revenues and expenses are the teams. That is why the parking fees for the Chiefs are higher than the parking fees for the Royals. Not sure what the Wizards charge for their games.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:13 pm

The only point you continue to make is that the city isn't "flush" with money, so a new baseball stadium downtown is wrong. Few cities or municipalities are 'flush' with money, unless you are North KC and have a bunch of casinos filling your coffers. Neither KCMO or Jackson Cty has the money laying around to upgrade Kaufmann at $150 million plus interest. The 150 million ISN't there now, $350 million isn't there now, there's nothing in the coffers now, nada, zilch, nunca..... Jackson Cty has to find a way to get the money. Creatively finding another $200 million more and getting a world class facility downtown that will improve every single aspect of the baseball game experience pays for itself with more fans, more money for Union Station, more pedestrian traffic and tons more development downtown.

JerseyGuy · Post by **JerseyGuy** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:41 am

Here's a new article from the Star about the stadium.....

Kemper backs downtown ballpark

KEVIN COLLISON

Add another voice â€” a particularly prominent businessman this time â€” to those who believe a downtown ballpark would be a wise use of taxpayer dollars to keep the Royals here.

â€œPersonally, I'd rather see a downtown ballpark than spend a lot of money refurbishing a ballpark at the Truman Sports Complex,â€

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:15 am

OK we need to get the website off the ground....all hands on deck....we need your help. Try and get this launched by Friday.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:43 am

[quote="JerseyGuy"]Here's a new article from the Star about the stadium.....
[quote]
Kemper backs downtown ballpark

KEVIN COLLISON

[...]
On a related note, two weeks ago the idea of a smaller, â€œboutiqueâ€

trailerkid · Post by **trailerkid** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 10:22 am

This is A GREAT DAY for downtown stadium supporters. Having someone with a big name like Kemper cosign on a downtown stadium is a major step. I am still not down with the small venue and I would rather see it in the dense Crown Center/Union Station location.

[quote]â€œEveryone agrees a ballpark should be downtown if we're going to spend that kind of money. The problem is, a process already is in place.

â€œEverybody is waiting to see what happens with bistate.â€

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 11:06 am

OK I have put in the requested changes and new renderings...what else?

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:00 pm

This is A GREAT DAY for downtown stadium supporters. Having someone with a big name like Kemper cosign on a downtown stadium is a major step. I am still not down with the small venue and I would rather see it in the dense Crown Center/Union Station location.

I totally agree, KC could be the laughing stock of baseball if the Royals get hot ( add to that the 'newness' effect of fans in droves to see the new stadium and experience) and fans are turned away because of our tiny new stadium. I think the safe bet is to build a minimum of 35K. And Crown Center/Union Station is a can't miss location for the total experience.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:23 pm

Yeah I dont want one too tiny but a stadium that's too big is also an embarrasment when it's always 90% empty. I think 35K-40K is good.

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:53 pm

I think that the rooftop bleachers are an amazing feature. They are one of the coolest things I've seen. They are great at Wrigley. Plus they put more people on and around the streets.

KC Kropf · Post by **KC Kropf** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:15 pm

One suggestion for the site would be to show the series of articles by Kevin C. or at least a link. Not just the pictures.

Post by **bahua** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:36 pm

That map is screwy. I think it either thinks we live in a world that is mirrored of itself, or they mixed up 15th and 16th streets.

LyRiCaL GanGsTa · Post by **LyRiCaL GanGsTa** » Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:42 pm

The map is screwed up....