KCRag Forum

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:42 pm https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0936158 ... ?entry=ttu

Looking at google maps, I have never noticed how many empty lots are now around the PAC.

Kansas City aspires to be Dresden Germany in 1945.

It remains a solid example of Kansas City's infatuation with baubles rather than the less sexy work of real city building.

While I agree with the criticism of the shameful empty lots around the PAC (and it is embarrassing), let's cut a little slack here for the fact that a big chunk of that land was tied up for years with the assumption that UMKC was going to build their downtown Conservatory (renderings are still floating around somewhere), as noted by Cratedigger.

It felt like pretty much a done deal until squashed by Gov. Grietens and (more shockingly) never picked back up again by the City or UMKC. I feel like UMKC is as much to blame here as anyone - when Plan A was disrupted, where was Plan B to pick up the pieces?

smh wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 9:22 am It remains a solid example of Kansas City's infatuation with baubles rather than the less sexy work of real city building.

In defense of the Kauffman center itself, I think it honest is a phenomenal piece of architecture, and its appearance on almost any piece of merch featuring the skyline shows how much of an icon it’s become. The performance halls are beautiful and the acoustics are great.

I think for the period it was built in, downtown needed flashy icons like this to draw attention back to downtown. Union station, WWI museum, P&L and the streetcar are all not traditional urbanism but together got the focus back on downtown. “Baubles” aren’t bad but at this point we should be building a lot more urban fabric around them than we currently are

It was certainly more needed than another ball park, and cost not much to taxpayers other than a garage. I am there a lot and probably will never set foot in a baseball stadium. The arts are real city building.

moderne wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:36 am It was certainly more needed than another ball park, and cost not much to taxpayers other than a garage. I am there a lot and probably will never set foot in a baseball stadium. The arts are real city building.

Both serve a purpose for a city, let’s not kid ourselves

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 12:53 pm

moderne wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 11:36 am It was certainly more needed than another ball park, and cost not much to taxpayers other than a garage. I am there a lot and probably will never set foot in a baseball stadium. The arts are real city building.

Both serve a purpose for a city, let’s not kid ourselves

Yeah, don't be like that. Some people like the arts, some people like sports, some people like both. Both are great assets to a downtown.

I love the PAC and because it is such an icon, you don't really even notice all the empty land around it because your focus is on the Kauffman Center itself.

But it really is hard to believe that it's 2024 and NOTHING has been built around it. The lots have only gotten more empty.

I realize you have to be careful with what you build near the PAC so you don't clash with it. The hotel they proposed was decent. Too bad they couldn't make that work.

They need to do something with the west side of Broadway though. Unless people would rather keep those businesses there because you know, 1-2 story industrial buildings from the 1950's and their parking lots should not be touched . JK!

(for the record they should not be touched unless a development is financed and ready to build).

i thought there were a few plans in the works for West side of Broadway. One around the old Denny's site and South. Building design is held up by the FAA right now on height issues. Then you have the Faultless site with LUX that is in progress but most likely will need to go to another developer. I would be nice to see some other development in front of it as you go down the hill but I think Everyone is sensitive to blocking the view of a world famous, architecturally designed building.

GRID wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:09 pm But it really is hard to believe that it's 2024 and NOTHING has been built around it. The lots have only gotten more empty.

Man, I really hope someone proposes another mega-project to the east that can generate even more empty lots. We could call it "mega-project empty lot row".

In the current economy, nothing is being built it appears, and stuff that is started has basically come to a halt. It feels like the well is running pretty dry right now. I know there have been several proposals for the site to the west of PAC. We have major events on the way in the next few years. It just seems like money is either being held or is gone. and if they have money they want city help as well. At least from my perspective that is what I am seeing. Feels like a trickle of activity compared to the full spigot of a few years ago.

dukuboy1 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2024 2:23 pm i thought there were a few plans in the works for West side of Broadway. One around the old Denny's site and South. Building design is held up by the FAA right now on height issues. Then you have the Faultless site with LUX that is in progress but most likely will need to go to another developer. I would be nice to see some other development in front of it as you go down the hill but I think Everyone is sensitive to blocking the view of a world famous, architecturally designed building.

No way the FAA is holding up that project. The developers are holding up that project. If the developers had the capability to start building, they would not let the FAA stand in the way. The approval would either be expedited or they would work around the height restrictions.

It doesn't seem like anybody can build a ten story building there, so why do we think somebody is going to build a 40 story building there?

Not sure why. Must be the cost of the land? It's been under developed for decades. Even prior to the PAC going in.

Most likely developers are waiting to see if the Fed will reduce interest rates this year to the point that many projects pencil out again. Of course, that is a gamble because construction costs may continue increasing while they wait.

Didn’t the FAA, pretty much stall for months the apartment building in the River Market? There were a few other things but I recall the City getting involved to help streamline their 60 year policies & procedures. Granted developers are most likely waiting on better interest rates & most likely don’t have cash to start regardless. But the FAA thing is real & they roll at their own speed no matter what. Not saying it’s the true hold up but enough of a hassle to make a project not viable perhaps from an NOI perspective.

I understand the FAA thing is real, but I guarantee it's not the FAA holding up the project. If they wanted to get shovels in the ground, they would be doing a lot more to get FAA approval and if the FAA was truly holding up the project, the developers would be making a much bigger deal about it, possibly even litigation. And the city would be more involved in a resolution etc.

The west side of Broadway has seen so many proposals over the years, it's hard to even keep straight who is doing what there anymore or take any project there seriously till somebody announced they have a financed plan and start date.

At least Denny's was an active business and a rare example of Googi design.

15 new trees planted along 17th street, and along broadway, in the vacant lot just south of the PAC. Not sure if that's good or bad for the possibility of any future development. Are we resigning to the fact that this is just going to be a greenspace/park? If there was a possibility of any near term development, I can't imagine they would go to the trouble of planting trees just to have them be taken down a year later. I did however see them doing some core sampling here last summer.

That's odd to plant within the vacant lot. Are they close to the sidewalks or in the middle of the lot? Who owns the block?

moderne wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 4:48 pm That's odd to plant within the vacant lot. Are they close to the sidewalks or in the middle of the lot? Who owns the block?

Sorry, the trees are along the perimeter. But just far enough inside that they look like they would interfere with development. Who knows, perhaps its part of a broader project? Personally, it looks kind of random. Parcel is owned by a holding company that was/is trying to develop. They also own the parcel just south, the community garden, which has 20 + empty tree wells. Ironically, we asked if we could plant trees there a couple of years ago, and they declined, sighting possible future development.

Protected view corridor makes it next to impossible to develop the lots directly south of the Performing Arts Center. I believe the maximum you can go here is 3-stories.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Mon Jun 03, 2024 5:34 pm Protected view corridor makes it next to impossible to develop the lots directly south of the Performing Arts Center. I believe the maximum you can go here is 3-stories.

https://www.helixus.com/project/downtow ... al-design/

Here is an interesting idea that would fit within those parameters