KCRag Forum

Highlander wrote:

GRID wrote:Sure wish this was a more comprehensive mixed use and urban development. I guess beggars can't be choosers, but this will do nothing for south kc. I'm not sure it's worth the tax investment myself although if you don't do it here, Cerner will do the same thing in Kansas or something.

REALLY sucks that KC can't leverage such massive projects like this to build well planned developments or districts. If done right a project like this could gentrify and redevelop an entire part of KC. This will do nothing but put a few more cars back on the wide desolate streets and interchanges around 435 and Bannister during rush hour.

I have little hope that this project will have much of a positive impact on the area. Even if it's done right (and there is much room for improvement in the current plans), KC is just too small of a metro to support unlimited business center/commercial nodes. The metro already has DT, the Plaza and College Blvd and several smaller business centers scattered around the area. I don't think we have the resources to gentrify a low income suburban community. We've barely made inroads in the urban city center which is much more the national trend. The area is so depressed that I suspect the Cerner project will just sit there for years as an office park island in a sea of lower income housing.

it's actually office development #2 planned for the area and it's next to the existing development so it's not alone already.

[q
it's actually office development #2 planned for the area and it's next to the existing development so it's not alone already.[/quote]

What existing development? The existing mall site is mostly a wasteland. It will be an island for some time to come.

not right there but on the other side of 435 north of 87th. it's also working through approval

and this project is right next to the existing complex on the south side of Bannister

harbinger911 wrote:I hate this project.
If Cerner built a taller, denser project like this along the 31st street corridor it would completely revitalize midtown.
Imagine it in the Crossroads or even SW Blvd

All the suburban-minded-KCMO-hating-no-local-pride execs seem to have the same mindset.
To build an "office corridor" along E/W I-435 that keeps moving the center of the city south and west.
It is insane that Cerner would be so anti-KC and have so little desire to improve this city's core.
This office district will not change that area at all.
Bannister and everything "retail" there died for a reason - we all know exactly what that reason is.
This project will eventually become another sprint tomb, constantly drawing cheap, sub-prime new leases.

I agree about the Sprint reference, eventually at least.

There might be a generational thing going on here. The people in charge of companies like this were typically in their formative years when American cities were in steep decline and things like Corporate Woods were considered innovative. I wonder if we will start to see more companies moving into the urban core as the people who grew up there/still live there rise to positions of power.

You could say we're already seeing that trend with people born & raised in the suburbs choosing to live in the city. It would only be logical that when they get old enough to make these decisions they would choose the city as well.

It's too bad that for every boomer with the foresight to locate a company in the city now, we have ones like Cerner that will doom their next generation of workers to a suburban office compound.

Most of us want Cerner in city core as well as any major new development but from KCMO perspective as a whole, the second best option is keeping jobs and tax base in the City. It's not a disaster and could _potentially_ curb the SKC decline. Will also pull in tax base from JoCo'rs who work in SKC (KCMO income tax and any retail that might spawn from it).

The bottom line though is that Bannister site is probably least path of resistance for them to build quickly and keep pace with their phenomenal growth. At least it doesn't result in more sprawl.

earthling wrote:Most of us want Cerner in city core as well as any major new development but from KCMO perspective as a whole, the second best option is keeping jobs and tax base in the City. It's not a disaster and could _potentially_ curb the SKC decline. Will also pull in tax base from JoCo'rs who work in SKC (KCMO income tax and any retail that might spawn from it).

The bottom line though is that Bannister site is probably least path of resistance for them to build quickly and keep pace with their phenomenal growth. At least it doesn't result in more sprawl.

I agree with this, but with such a big project that is funded by so much public money, it just seems like yet another huge blown opportunity.

Never again, will the city be able to go into SKC and really change the direction the area is going. Office space alone will do absolutely nothing for the area around the old bannister mall site. Just like Cerner's NKC HQ does little for the area around it or the office parks in Hickman Mills and 435/Holmes have done little.

Here is a chance to really do a nice mixed use project that would have a major positive impact on all of South Kansas City. I mean, it's better than the alternative (bannister site continues to rot back into agriculture and cerner builds the same thing in a Kansas farm field), but god damn, these type of project come to a metro once or twice in a generation and most of the ones you see now are part of well planned mixed use developments (urban or suburban locations). This is a 1960's urban planning project in 2013. Don't get it.

There really are no suburban mixed use projects yet. there are some that's mixed planning with some residential buildings, some commercial, but not mixed use. There's a struggle to get *urban* mixed use projects implemented in KC right now.

really, this is another example where zoning doesn't line up with the future needs for the city.

Portland is considered one of the greatest downtown revival stories and has no particularly large private employer downtown (that I could find). Intel, Nike and other large are in the burbs. Is common now for large employers to go outside downtowns for large floor plates. Cerner could have easily expanded outer burbs or even other metro. KCMO overall is very fortunate to get what it got.

Lost opportunity for downtown KC but definitely shouldn't have been expected, Cerner is still overall great for KCMO.

KCMO as a whole needs to focus on workforce no matter where it is. Downtown KC needs to focus on increasing population base and entice startups, which _will_ cause organic growth of downtown workforce as happened to Portland. Cerner may eventually 'get it' and start leasing downtown as most of the 20 somethings they hire from outside KC area want to live downtown/midtown but I don't think DTKC needs to depend on the large employers. KCMO as a whole can pwn the metro again and SKC is the lacking area.

KCMO is large in area and that's the way it is. The City needs to take advantage of that (though carefully) and not try to be something it isn't. There is an advantage that KCMO stretches longwise N/S, generally within 15 miles E/W of the rest of burbs. KCMO in Northland has most of the N economic drivers (airport, office space, most of retail, amusement park, largest casino). Central KCMO has most of the economic activity through central part of metro and draws from rest (Plaza retail, downtown arts/entertainment). JaCo economically dominates East part metro. JoCo dominates the S part of metro economically and I see nothing wrong with SKC going after a chunk of that, is an opportunity actually. Could envision Bannister to Stateline I435 corridor built up along with Red Bridge developing into something more substantial.

I don't see it as a given Cerner won't improve SKC. I see as a kickstart to what could happen along I435 corridor to state line and down to Red Bridge. While I'd still rather see Stowers go into city core, that project and Oxford Blue may be next steps. And then it wouldn't be surprising to see more happen along I435 to state line. While it may not significantly boost population base in SKC, it could significantly boost workforce, which is significant tax base.

"I agree with this, but with such a big project that is funded by so much public money, it just seems like yet another huge blown opportunity.

Never again, will the city be able to go into SKC and really change the direction the area is going."

Don't forget the Federal complex at Bannister and Troost. That has the potential to be a bigger project that this. Of course it is a few years down the road.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:"I agree with this, but with such a big project that is funded by so much public money, it just seems like yet another huge blown opportunity.

Never again, will the city be able to go into SKC and really change the direction the area is going."

Don't forget the Federal complex at Bannister and Troost. That has the potential to be a bigger project that this. Of course it is a few years down the road.

The best I see ever happening at the old federal complex is a warehouse industrial park that might employ a few hundred people and even that will probably take decades as there are several similar projects across KC that are further along (and also take a long time to build out).

SKC really has something with Cerner, the potential research campus (Stowers etc), But it's like there are no urban planners in KC. These things don't have to be downtown, but they should be parts of larger, better planned mixed use projects that would have far more impact on the area other than commuter traffic.

Cerner completes land purchase for new campus

Cerner Corp. has completed the purchase of the property needed for its planned $4.3 billion office development at Interstate 435 and Bannister Road in south Kansas City.

The acquisition of the 237-acre Three Trails property that includes the site of the former Bannister Mall was completed last week, according to city officials. The office development, when fully built out over 10 years, would be the largest in the area, surpassing the Sprint headquarters in Overland Park.

...

Construction of the first phase of the Cerner office development is expected to begin in 2014. The first phase is expected to include 578,500 square feet of office space in two buildings, and a service center. About 2,260 jobs are expected to be created in the first phase, according to documents filed with the city.

http://tinyurl.com/n2kskvo

Cerner to formally announce Three Trails expansion

10:30 a.m. press conference has been scheduled and Gov. Jay Nixon and Mayor Sly James are expected to attend the event along with officials from Cerner.

The North Kansas City-based health care technology giant ultimately plans to build a phased, 4.5 million-square-foot campus that's expected to employ 15,000 people when completed in 2024. Cerner employs more than 9,000 people in the metropolitan area.

Drove by the other day. Looks like some work has already started.

They've been tearing down the strip malls over the last couple of months. Apparently Burlington Coat Factory and one other store are still in business.

Not talking about the tear downs but there appears to be some work being done on the north end by the highway. Maybe something with the utilities.

On the 87th Street side of the campus there will be commuter rail parking. Hmmm.

KCMax wrote:On the 87th Street side of the campus there will be commuter rail parking. Hmmm.

http://www.kcsmartmoves.org/pdf/us71/US ... -20-13.pdf

that makes sense. see page 6 of this PDF. you can see how they want to use that rail line for the commuter route
it's visible in google satellite for perusal and that's a decent meeting point for it at an existing major street that's been recently improved and an existing bike route. also is a decent distance from the end of the country club row compared to Bannister

Thread should probably be renamed to Cerner/Three Trails. It will be largest campus in MO.

Construction of the first phase of the office development will include 578,500 square feet of office space in two buildings and a service center. About 2,260 jobs are expected to be created in the first phase, according to documents filed with the city.

And they say in other reports that will be new jobs, not transfers from other sites.

http://m.kansascity.com/?cu=spreed%3A%2 ... 2F24766677