KCRag Forum

How bout I answer your question Kard, before I add you to my ignore list that is... (I don't wish to listen to your bullshit)

The Chiefs should never move to WyCo because those idiots in WyCo will build the damned stadium near the Kansas Speedway. No more development should be in that area. All development should be focused in Downtown KCK, not near the speedway or Village West. It just encourages the further decay of DT KCK...

They should never move to JoCo because the bastards in the government over there will take advantage of it and could encourage even more people to move there, it would further boost the economy in JoCo, which shouldn't be boosted anymore than it already is. The money in JoCo should all be going to KCMO and KCK. All the businesses in JoCo should be in KCK and KCMO, mainly in their Downtowns. Not in some damned suburban "pleasantville" outside of the inner city.

That good enough for you Kard? If not, then that's too bad because that is all the explanation, (or reply) that you will be getting from me.

KCDevin wrote: How bout I answer your question Kard, before I add you to my ignore list that is... (I don't wish to listen to your bullshit)

The Chiefs should never move to WyCo because those idiots in WyCo will build the damned stadium near the Kansas Speedway. No more development should be in that area. All development should be focused in Downtown KCK, not near the speedway or Village West. It just encourages the further decay of DT KCK...

They should never move to JoCo because the bastards in the government over there will take advantage of it and could encourage even more people to move there, it would further boost the economy in JoCo, which shouldn't be boosted anymore than it already is. The money in JoCo should all be going to KCMO and KCK. All the businesses in JoCo should be in KCK and KCMO, mainly in their Downtowns. Not in some damned suburban "pleasantville" outside of the inner city.

That good enough for you Kard? If not, then that's too bad because that is all the explanation, (or reply) that you will be getting from me.

They should never move to JoCo because the bastards in the government over there will take advantage of it and could encourage even more people to move there, it would further boost the economy in JoCo, which shouldn't be boosted anymore than it already is.

This doesn't make sense at all. Why would anyone move to JoCo because Arrowhead is there? Do you see a lot of neighborhoods cropping up by Arrowhead now? If anything, people in JoCo DON'T want to live near a stadium. NIMBYism runs high in JoCo.

I also don't understand how this would be such a huge economic windfall for JoCo. People go tailgate at Chiefs games, then leave, they don't linger around and spend money in the area. Any economic impact from the teams is spread throughout the entire metro area, in people staying at hotels, enjoying the Plaza, downtown, whatever. If anything, Johnson County will now have to shoulder the burden of paying for the stadium, while not really improving on the economic benefit they were getting from the teams. Jackson County will be the one getting the free ride.

I think the renovations should have been 100% financed by Jackson County. If the owners wanted to pitch something in, that's fine, but not required, in my opinion. Jackson County owns the TSC, and is responsible for it. With that in mind, I hope the funds collected by this tax will be disbursed and spent by Jackson County resources, and absolutely not our lessee sports teams. If the case is the latter, I don't expect any appreciable, noncosmetic work to get done, in the way of renovations and upkeep.

Glass and Hunt do not care about the condition of the property they're renting. They only care about making money, and that's just fine. That's their business. But as such, it's crucial not to let them manage the money from these taxes. We are the landlord. We should fix the facilities.

I am not concerned about people from other counties and states, and whatever benefit they might derive from the TSC. They don't own it, and as such, the only financial support obligation they have is to pay for what they buy, when they go.

KCMax wrote:Right now there is no incentive for JoCo to do so, so how can we get them to?

Ummm...not trying to be a dick, but don't continue to pass ballot initiatives that force the entire tax burden on one central county or central city. The KS side will never get the message as long as Jack Co continues to pick up after them. The stuff that KCMo pays for alone is bad enough, but this takes it to another level.

trailerkid wrote: Ummm...not trying to be a dick, but don't continue to pass ballot initiatives that force the entire tax burden on one central county or central city. The KS side will never get the message as long as Jack Co continues to pick up after them. The stuff that KCMo pays for alone is bad enough, but this takes it to another level.

no, kansas will never pay for it. they had a chance. said no thank you. so, let them have the wizards.

kcdcchef wrote: no, kansas will never pay for it. they had a chance. said no thank you. so, let them have the wizards.

But then they'd have to pay for something, and that's no good.

But they've already got such a buren paying for Quintiles, Sprint...

bahua...your whole "you don't pay for it unless you own it" sounds like a good idea. Why not make a special tax zone around the Plaza only to pay for the stadiums. Then the rest of us can just use the stadiums and rename the organization the Plaza Sports Authority? All the burden is on that taxing district to pay for it and the rest of us just pay to use it when we want.

kcdcchef wrote: no, kansas will never pay for it. they had a chance. said no thank you. so, let them have the wizards.

KS isn't going to pay for anything as long as Jack Co continues to bend over time and time again. You think it's a privilege to pay for those crappy stadiums for those crappy teams? Like KS had some big opportunity to outbid Missouri for a baseball team that performs on a AAA level and a football team that hasn't won a playoff game since before I was in puberty? God, Jackson County is soooo lucky they kept those marvelous teams. Why would Lamar Hunt bother with milking Kansas when it's like taking candy from a baby dealing with Jackson County? There is no need for any other county or organization to get invovled because Jackson County is dumb enough to believe an unnecessarily lopsided tax burden is some sort of prize.

trailerkid wrote: bahua...your whole "you don't pay for it unless you own it" sounds like a good idea. Why not make a special tax zone around the Plaza only to pay for the stadiums. Then the rest of us can just use the stadiums and rename the organization the Plaza Sports Authority? All the burden is on that taxing district to pay for it and the rest of us just pay to use it when we want.

Um, what?

There's a heck of a lot of sales tax that goes around in JaCo besides the Plaza. I assumed you were familiar with other parts of it.

bahua wrote: Um, what?

There's a heck of a lot of sales tax that goes around in JaCo besides the Plaza. I assumed you were familiar with other parts of it.

I'm proposing that the Plaza alone pays for and owns the stadium. The rest of us can just use it when we want.

trailerkid wrote: I'm proposing that the Plaza alone pays for and owns the stadium. The rest of us can just use it when we want.

Actually, how about we just limit it to the Plaza Barnes and Noble?  That way the rest of the plazy community won't be hit so hard and can get it free, too.

trailerkid wrote: KS isn't going to pay for anything as long as Jack Co continues to bend over time and time again. You think it's a privilege to pay for those crappy stadiums for those crappy teams?

KS paid for the Union Station (although I believe bistate failed in Wyandotte County).  Kansans will pay for projects that the residents think will benefit them and the metro, they have done it before and will do it again.  I think Bistate II would have passed in JoCO had it been dedicated solely to the stadium issue.  I think a bistate plan to finance the zoo would pass also.   I see a lot of letters to the editor in the star from JoCo people eager to see KC suceed and ready to pitch in.  Yea, it may not be a pervasive attitude, nor is it in Missouri either, but too many people think that just because the last Bistate initiative failed, they all will.  I believe good projects that are single issues have a very good chance of passing in JoCo (although Wyandotte County is another matter).  

Kard wrote: Actually, how about we just limit it to the Plaza Barnes and Noble?  That way the rest of the plazy community won't be hit so hard and can get it free, too.

Or maybe we could just limit the tax district to the B+N Cafe to pay for the renovations.

trailerkid wrote: Or maybe we could just limit the tax district to the B+N Cafe to pay for the renovations.

If only it actually was "renovations." Sigh.

Highlander wrote: KS paid for the Union Station (although I believe bistate failed in Wyandotte County).  Kansans will pay for projects that the residents think will benefit them and the metro, they have done it before and will do it again.  I think Bistate II would have passed in JoCO had it been dedicated solely to the stadium issue.  I think a bistate plan to finance the zoo would pass also.   I see a lot of letters to the editor in the star from JoCo people eager to see KC suceed and ready to pitch in.  Yea, it may not be a pervasive attitude, nor is it in Missouri either, but too many people think that just because the last Bistate initiative failed, they all will.  I believe good projects that are single issues have a very good chance of passing in JoCo (although Wyandotte County is another matter).  

I see what you're saying, but baby steps. Because Jack Co and KCMo have exclusively paid for metro attractions for soooo long, 99.9% of the attractions are located in those districts. It would be political suicide the force the issue without at least one prominant tax burden having its home on the other side of the state line. IMO, Chiefs were a good opportunity to do something like this. MCI would've also been another good opportunity to shift a big tax burden to the KS side.

It is killing this metro having so many people, and so many townships and having so few people responsible for paying the bills on our biggest attractions and assets.

trailerkid wrote: It is killing this metro having so many people, and so many townships and having so few people responsible for paying the bills on our biggest attractions and assets.

Agreed.  This is among the biggest factors explaining why KC is not among the US leaders when it comes to the quality of our public assets.  The pot feeding the assets is not currently large enough.  Consequently, we get public works more akin to a smaller city than a 2 million person metro.  Sprint Center will be nice but it won't have the amenities of other arenas in larger cities (e.g., Dallas).  Back when the TSC was built (and those stadiums were indeed quality for their day), Jackson County had more relative economic might than it does today. 

Agreed, and when people realize the inequality, and see which side is getting a better deal, guess where they're going to go?  This isn't an instant movement, but it occurs over time.  It does happen.  It's among one of the reasons JoCo grows faster then the rest of the metro.

TK, you have turned into a typical JoCo.

So sad.

If the fucking stadiums were at I-35 and 75th Street and it was a JoCo vote and you had Jackson County looking at the Chiefs.  How would JoCo vote?

I bet it would be more like 75% yes.