PROs and CONs of Question 1 and Question 2

[AllThingsKC]

PRO - By 2015, the Super Bowl could be an ever bigger deal then it is now, if that's possible.  Plus, we could get lots of other events.

CON - The city seems to be getting "it" from the teams/owners, but still all it costs is 38-cents for every $100.00 spent in Jackson County....so, PRO?!?!

[aknowledgeableperson]

But it may be a lot better.  You'll never know without giving it a shot

What additional shot are you expecting?  The closer we get to the end of the year the closer the County gets into a position of default.  It is hard to negotiate when you are in a position of weakness.

[LenexatoKCMO]

PRO
Best use of taxpayer money given the alternatives.  Taxpayer cost to rehab is quite less than building one and probably two new stadiums.  The taxpayer might have gotten a better deal but we cannot change the past.  To vote against it in order to get a better deal does not mean the taxpayer will receive a better deal.  In all likelihood the taxpayer will receive a worse deal.  We have what we have.

That is quite possibly the most illogical thing I have ever heard.  Name one instance in the history of stadium votes where the voters said NO and then wound up committing to a worse deal down the road.  Its never happened. 

[KCMax]

Bizarro World:

Teams: Hey, if you don't improve our facilities, we can leave. All it would take is about $60-80 million to get us up to code.

County: Oops, sorry bout that. Would $1 billion be okay?

Teams: Uh, er, great! When do we begin?

County: Sorry, the taxpayers said no.

Teams: That's okay. We'll settle for $2 billion.

[kard]

What additional shot are you expecting?  The closer we get to the end of the year the closer the County gets into a position of default.  It is hard to negotiate when you are in a position of weakness.

Why can't we just pass a measure so that Jacomo would not default?  Come up with the money somehow.  Sheesh.

And fire all the people who let us get in to a situation where we'd default anyway!!!  It's their fault whether they planned to default or not (implied: corruption, greed).  Grrrrrrr.

[GRID]

Give it up guys, east jack is going to pass this 2:1, nothing is going to stop that.

Not that I agree with that, but ten ongoing threads about this topic?

[mean]

Too bad for east jack that the population of west jack is 2:1 higher than east jack. We have a real chance to beat this. Vote NO!

[kcdcchef]

That is quite possibly the most illogical thing I have ever heard.  Name one instance in the history of stadium votes where the voters said NO and then wound up committing to a worse deal down the road.  Its never happened. 

comiskey park in chicago. it did happen. they had a vote in cook county in 1985, that would have spent 64m to renovate historic comiskey stadium, in exchange for a new 25 year lease with the white sox to begin in 1987, and voted it down, and they tried to move instead to st. petersubrg florida in 1987, then, in an emergency vote, cook county instead voted to spend 9 figures, instead of 8, on a new stadium next to old comiskey, even though over 2 million signatures were collected to save old comiskey, mr. reinsdorff refused to accept any deal on saving old commy, and it cost them almost triple, to build, what almost all of baseball agrees, is one of it's worst stadiums, us cellular.

[GRID]

Too bad for east jack that the population of west jack is 2:1 higher than east jack. We have a real chance to beat this. Vote NO!

East Jax (even though it's more central to east jax) is everything outside of 435, inluding Grandiview.  It's larger than KCMO inside 435 and will have a much higher percentage of voters that will actually vote.

[kcdcchef]

Too bad for east jack that the population of west jack is 2:1 higher than east jack. We have a real chance to beat this. Vote NO!

oh please. not by a long shot.

blue springs, mo          50,000
independence, mo      114,000
Lee's Summit, Mo          85,000
Grandview, MO            25,000
Lake Lotowana, MO        2,000
Buckner, MO                  3,000
Oak Grove, MO              6,000

that is pushing 300,000 ( under i know ) so, since jacko is about 660,000, i guess that little 2:1 argument of yours holds NO water.

[GRID]

They don't want to loose the stadiums.

They think they are important to the area, from the hotels to the restaurants.  Even owners of other entertainment options like Lunar Bowl and Sports City in Blue Springs and Paradise Park in Lee's Summit are very much for this.

Downtown rarely if ever even comes up as an issue and they think downtown would be another Johnson County benefit (closer and most downtown business owners live in JoCo) at Jackson County's expense.

The threat of the teams leaving scares the hell out them and I think the threat of them going to Kansas might even be more frightening.

Just observations I notice.

[lock+load]

They think they are important to the area, from the hotels to the restaurants.  Even owners of other entertainment options like Lunar Bowl and Sports City in Blue Springs and Paradise Park in Lee's Summit are very much for this.

We better vote yes, because I sure as hell don't want to be blamed for depriving those East Jackers of their Dennys and Taco Bell!!

[shinatoo]

oh please. not by a long shot.

blue springs, mo           50,000
independence, mo       114,000
Lee's Summit, Mo          85,000
Grandview, MO             25,000
Lake Lotowana, MO        2,000
Buckner, MO                  3,000
Oak Grove, MO               6,000

that is pushing 300,000 ( under i know ) so, since jacko is about 660,000, i guess that little 2:1 argument of yours holds NO water.

Add in the Raytown and Hickman School districts (both out side the loop) pluss all of the area around Grandview that is KCMO and that number goes up to 450,000 and put you right around 1.8:1.

Holds Water!

[LenexatoKCMO]

oh please. not by a long shot.

blue springs, mo           50,000
independence, mo       114,000
Lee's Summit, Mo          85,000
Grandview, MO             25,000
Lake Lotowana, MO        2,000
Buckner, MO                  3,000
Oak Grove, MO               6,000

that is pushing 300,000 ( under i know ) so, since jacko is about 660,000, i guess that little 2:1 argument of yours holds NO water.

This is a rather tangential, rediculous debate so I hate to wade in, but isn't it a bit out of line to count all of Indep as "East Jack"?  What chunk of that 114k is closer to KCMO than the eastern provinces?  (serious question, I don't honestly have an idea)  I guess that could be a bit subjective.  

[GRID]

^  Technically east jack is everything outside the loop, including western indep, eastern KCMO and Grandview.  And chances are, they will vote very similar in Ruskin or Englewood as they will in Lee's Summit or Blue Springs.

Remember, "east" Jax was east back when the city began to sprawl east, with the exception of downtown indep.

KCMO outside the loop relates more to suburban jackson county than urban KCMO itself.

Taco Bell and Denny's?  No, I'm being serious, I'm talking about the hundreds of restaurants and hotels in LS, BS, around Indep Center, etc.

The Blue Springs Marriot owners were in the Examiner yesterday saying how they are full when the Royals are in town.  The Indep Hillton said the same thing a while back.

As, usual, I'm just telling it like it is.  Don't shoot the messinger.

[mean]

Yeah, I suppose what constitutes E Jack is going to start an argument. Doesn't really matter, it is tangental BS.

Anyway, all of my family lives out there, both mom and dad's sides, and they generally are tired of getting screwed by the rich and will be voting no. Thank goodness for rational thinkers.

[tat2kc]

not sure about shooting the messenger, but I did shoot the sherrif. But I did not shoot the deputy. 

[kard]

East Jax (even though it's more central to east jax) is everything outside of 435, inluding Grandiview.  It's larger than KCMO inside 435 and will have a much higher percentage of voters that will actually vote.

Sadly, Grid, I think you're right.  East Jack, regardless of the population, has more likely voters then West Jack.

Yeah, mean, my folks are out there, too, and they're leaning no.  But not strongly.  They could go the other way if more threats or benefits show up.  It's not over yet.

[mean]

Which is why saveourowners.com rules my ass so hard. Besides being funny, it's literally the ONLY opposition I've seen.

Has anyone seen any other organized opposition at all?

[bahua]

There's the I CAN'T AFFORD IT, STOP THE TAXES ARGH group.

I'm sure they appear to be reasonable people.