Official arena opposition: Coalition Against Arena Taxes

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 6:45 pm

That's called a FUD campaign - Fear Uncertainty and Doubt.

aknowledgeableperson · Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:00 pm

People who follow the discussions on the Arena know that I am not in favor of the current proposal before the voters on August 3rd. Not because of the fees proposed but because the City does not have legal contracts in place for much of the financing and City commitments. So what is the purpose of this post you ask? Well, there are other issues on the ballot that may affect the vote for or against the arena issue more than the stated public opposition to the arena proposal.

These issues are the anti-gay marriage proposal and the Rockaway Beach gambling proposal. The people that are for marriage only between male and female and against gambling may also be against the arena since they may be against taxes. Don't know for sure but it may be a logical deduction.

These issues are sure to bring out more than the normal amount of voters for a primary election and this is the wild card that may leave the arena issue up-the-creek-without-a-paddle. Who knows how these people will vote on the arena issue but the arena supporters should be aware of this and take this into account.

LET THE VOTERS DECIDE.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:07 pm

akp....what do you say to the national organizer that the city has hired to lead their side of the negotions that states they have never seen a proposal THIS FAR in ANY city before a public vote?

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:52 am

I have to admit, the gay marriage thing being on the same ballot does make me nervous. My hope is that most of those voting against the gay marriage ban are also likely to vote for the arena, while thouse voting for the ban will be more split on the arena.

I'm voting for the arena, for Rockaway Beach, and against the gay marriage ban. I honestly have no idea what else may be on the ballot... those three issues are more important to me than anything else they could tack on. Unless there were a "recall Bush" drive.

Post by **staubio** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:14 am

scooterj wrote:I have to admit, the gay marriage thing being on the same ballot does make me nervous. My hope is that most of those voting against the gay marriage ban are also likely to vote for the arena, while thouse voting for the ban will be more split on the arena.

I'm voting for the arena, for Rockaway Beach, and against the gay marriage ban. I honestly have no idea what else may be on the ballot... those three issues are more important to me than anything else they could tack on. Unless there were a "recall Bush" drive.

Those are all of the "questions" on the ballot. The rest is just primary stuff, depending on where you live. You'll get to chime in on the McCaskill/Holden debate and maybe also get to vote to nominate a House or Senate candidate on the state or national level.

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 5:34 am

Good news! The Northland Regional Chamber of Commerce has endorsed the arena tax.

Hmmm... most of those car rental agencies opposed to the tax happen to be in the Northland. That's gotta hurt for their own Chamber of Commerce to side with what povides the greater benefit.

[quote]
Arena tax endorsed

The Northland Regional Chamber of Commerce has endorsed the proposed downtown arena tax.

Question 1 on the Aug. 3 ballot seeks voter approval for hotel and car rental fee increases to help pay the public portion of a $225 million to $250 million arena between 13th and 15th streets and Grand Boulevard and Oak Street.

Northland Chamber of Commerce officials said the endorsement further illustrates the chamber's support for downtown revitalization.

â€œMake no mistake, a thriving downtown will benefit the Northland,â€

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 6:55 am

CAAT does make a valid point....

Most NBA or NHL arenas built in the last ten years have had a 10-20% public contribution, while KC's arena will have a 57% public subsidy. We are getting much less private investment than most other cities.

Also, the "vote no" ad is now airing, and it's aggressive.

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:39 am

agressive how?

Post by **dangerboy** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:17 am

*Professional-looking, better than the NorthStar ads for the bond/zoo/memorial campaigns.
*no teams for the arena and small chance of getting on
*more than half of car rentals are by local residents
*waste of tax money

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:21 am

lies and opinions....they give no facts to back up any of it...hopefully tax payers are smart enough to realize that.

MidtownCat · Post by **MidtownCat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:01 am

Just spoke with Amanda at the DowntownArena headquarters.

She said according to their information they have gathered, Enterprise has spent 1 million dollars funding this smear campaign. They believe that in addition to Enterprise's profit interests there is also heavy behind the scenes involvement from St. Louis politicians very concered with the urban revilalization of Kansas City in light of their own efforts in downtown St. Louis.

She also said, they are working on a television and radio campaign of their own "round the clock" and are going to be shooting an ad in St. Louis this weekend.

Look forward to seeing that one!

Barnes is extremly upset about this as well she should be.

Bottom line, the strength of this community is far greater that any malicious attack Enterprise can muster through their feeble television and web campaign. We will no be intimidated by the greed of large corporations and we will not let them stand in the way of OUR city's progress.

I encourage everyone to do what they can to join in this effort.

Call the Downtown Arena headquarters at 816-756-1979 and get involved.

Also, I encourage everyone to call Between The Lines this afternoon and let your voice be heard on this issue.

We need all the help we can get!

DiggityDawg · Post by **DiggityDawg** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:04 am

In today's Star , Jeffrey Flanagan mentioned a phrase that used to appear in the Topeka newspaper that describes these anti-arena people perfectly :

CAVE people.

CAVE = Citizens Against Virtually Everything.

I like it!

scooterj · Post by **scooterj** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:09 am

KCPowercat wrote:lies and opinions....they give no facts to back up any of it...hopefully tax payers are smart enough to realize that.

Perhaps we should document the lies on their site and put up a site of our own comparing their lies to the facts?

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:40 pm

Here are some quotes I found to be at very least misleading....let me know what you think. Might make a page on this site to post these after some people have read them and proofread them.

CAAT website inaccuracies: (please avoid typing their website anywhere on the forum so google doesn't pick it up)

Front page:
"City council passed a tax proposal to help fund the arena that would increase taxes on Kansas City residents"

This is a tax on people who rent cars and stay in hotel rooms. Where the person lives has nothing to do with who's being taxed. This is mistated multiple times throughout the site. The tax is on people who rent cars and stay in hotels in Kansas City, Missouri....not necessarily residents of any municipality.

About Us:
"CAAT is working to make fellow Kansas City residents aware that the arena tax will unfairly charge millions of dollars each year to Kansas City citizens"

unfairly? Millions of dollars? Any sort of facts on this would be great to hammer home that point. No facts can be produced.

The Issue:
"With just a few weeks before the August 3 election, the city is still millions of dollars short in getting the needed funding for the arena, neither a design nor final budget has been proposed, and no professional basketball or hockey team has committed to moving to Kansas City."

KCMO's legal council on this issue is a nationally known entity on this subject. They have stated they've never seen a plan for an arena put together so well before an election. Design and final budget can not be complete until voter's approve the tax...doing so before hand would be wasteful of taxpayer money. AEG will manage this arena and will make it profitable even w/o a professional tenant. Remember they are absorbing all operating losses for 35 years.

"Question 1 forces another tax increase on Kansas City residents â€“ all for an empty arena."

First point addressed above. Empty arena? Kemper under private management is as full as it's ever been with events. AEG is a nationally known facilities management company that wants to make money, they will not let it sit empty.

"With little public notice, the City Council passed this tax proposal with virtually no public testimony."

A public vote is pretty good public testimony.

"In addition, this tax will make this area less attractive to business travelers and tourists."

Our hotel and rental car rates are lower than national average. Increased fees will raise that but still below the national average of the total bill of a normal hotel room or rental car in Kansas City.

"Historically, the city government has failed to accurately predict how much it will cost to fund other public projects such as Union Station and Bartle Hall."

Irrelevant, AEG's agreement states they take over any budget or operational overruns for 35 years.

"They want that commitment from city taxpayers when there is no design or even a final budget for the arena; and, more importantly, there is no commitment from any professional sports franchise to relocate to Kansas City and use the proposed arena."

Addressed above.

"Just like Union Station and Bartle Hall, if revenues do not cover the arenaâ€™s expenses, taxpayers will be forced to come up with even more money"

Complete lie. AEG covers all overruns or operating expenses for 35 years.

"Forcing local taxpayers to pay for this arena when there are so many questions to be answered is unfair"

A public vote is not forcing. There are always questions.

FAQ
"A. No. This tax applies to anyone who rents a car or hotel room. According to the largest rental car company 60 percent of its cars rented in Kansas City are from local residents."

define local. 60% KCMO residents? How many of this 60% are paid for by insurance companies for their clients. The truth is a large majority of this local percentage is insurance companies paying for these rentals for customers. The rental car companies have contracts in place with the insurance companies so until they can renegotiate these contracts, they wil have to eat the $4. They care nothing for the individuals, they are looking out for themselves. Don't let corporate greed/profit get in the way of a good plan for the citizens of KCMO.

"An economic slowdown or recession, as these industries experienced following 9/11, directly drives the number of cars and hotels rented and, therefore, the amount of revenue needed to fund the bonds."

But I thought 60% of the business was local? Local business doesn't travel and will still need to rent cars. Hotels are behind this plan so let's leave them out of this.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:46 pm

These lies need to be debunked publicly. Please forward that to all columnists, papers, talk show hosts, etc.

KCDevin · Post by **KCDevin** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:49 pm

^exactly do it!

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 12:50 pm

read over it for me guys and make sure it makes sense....this needs to be professionally done and make sense.

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:07 pm

If you submit this somewhere, I think it'd be good to have quotes/sources to back up the following statements, just to prove we have facts on our side:

KCMO's legal council on this issue is a nationally known entity on this subject. They have stated they've never seen a plan for an arena put together so well before an election.

AEG will manage this arena and will make it profitable even w/o a professional tenant. Remember they are absorbing all operating losses for 35 years.

Kemper under private management is as full as it's ever been with events.

AEG is a nationally known facilities management company that wants to make money, they will not let it sit empty.

Our hotel and rental car rates are lower than national average. Increased fees will raise that but still below the national average of the total bill of a normal hotel room or rental car in Kansas City.

Irrelevant, AEG's agreement states they take over any budget or operational overruns for 35 years.

Complete lie. AEG covers all overruns or operating expenses for 35 years.

Also,

A public vote is pretty good public testimony.

They were talking about lack of public testimony in the proposal stages of the tax

KCPowercat · Post by **KCPowercat** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 1:14 pm

yes I do need to find the quotes on many of those.

Isn't a public vote the ultimate public testimony? No matter how much time was given in the proposal stage?

KCN · Post by **KCN** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 2:02 pm

I just sent Enterprise a letter regarding the general statement they're sending to everyone, quoting what they wrote to everyone else.

Nine minutes later they responded word for word the exact same message that I quoted in my complaint. They didnt even read it.