KCRag Forum

Ordinance introduced establishing that KC is not a sanctuary city nor will become one. The state apparently bans sanctuary cities from receiving any funding and budget season is upon us….

MidKC wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:01 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:12 am ^ First, the unemployment rate is around 4%. In a metro area like Kansas City that means 80,000 people in our area looking for a job that can’t find one. Second, the unemployment rate methodology is bogus. They’ve changed it to make it lower. Actually, only close to 67% of the available workforce is actually working. Many people are not counted an unemployed because they have literally given up looking for work. Lastly, scarcity in workers drives up wages which is a good thing and has to happen to allow workers to pay for the inflated price of housing. If you add cheap labor to the workforce, this increasing wage pressure falls. Sure, it’s awesome for businesses. They can take advantage of super cheap labor and workers motivated to work hard. More money in that CEOs pocket. Also, what is being left behind in the cultures where these workers left? You just emptied most of some Central America country of their young, able bodied, motivated men. What’s left in that culture? But, America’s bottom line, right?

Anecdotally, I worked a retail job as a 3rd part time job and they were struggling bad to keep the building staffed and open. Managers and leads were routinely working 60+ hour weeks because they couldn’t find people to hire. Many of us who did work there also had 2 or 3 jobs. They paid $15-$16/hour and couldn’t really afford to pay much more. How is this sustainable?

If a company can't be sustained by increasing prices while paying minimum wage ($12.30/hour) or close to it (your $15-$16/hour) then they should go out of business.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:12 am ^ First, the unemployment rate is around 4%. In a metro area like Kansas City that means 80,000 people in our area looking for a job that can’t find one. Second, the unemployment rate methodology is bogus. They’ve changed it to make it lower. Actually, only close to 67% of the available workforce is actually working. Many people are not counted an unemployed because they have literally given up looking for work. Lastly, scarcity in workers drives up wages which is a good thing and has to happen to allow workers to pay for the inflated price of housing. If you add cheap labor to the workforce, this increasing wage pressure falls. Sure, it’s awesome for businesses. They can take advantage of super cheap labor and workers motivated to work hard. More money in that CEOs pocket. Also, what is being left behind in the cultures where these workers left? You just emptied most of some Central America country of their young, able bodied, motivated men. What’s left in that culture? But, America’s bottom line, right?

Unemployment rate is the number of unemployed people, divided by the total number of workers available in the civilian labor force. Your 80k number is 4% of the metros total population. Available workers is generally about 50% of the total population, so available workers with a 4% unemployment rate in KC should be closer to 40k.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 3:55 pm

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:12 am ^ First, the unemployment rate is around 4%. In a metro area like Kansas City that means 80,000 people in our area looking for a job that can’t find one. Second, the unemployment rate methodology is bogus. They’ve changed it to make it lower. Actually, only close to 67% of the available workforce is actually working. Many people are not counted an unemployed because they have literally given up looking for work. Lastly, scarcity in workers drives up wages which is a good thing and has to happen to allow workers to pay for the inflated price of housing. If you add cheap labor to the workforce, this increasing wage pressure falls. Sure, it’s awesome for businesses. They can take advantage of super cheap labor and workers motivated to work hard. More money in that CEOs pocket. Also, what is being left behind in the cultures where these workers left? You just emptied most of some Central America country of their young, able bodied, motivated men. What’s left in that culture? But, America’s bottom line, right?

Unemployment rate is the number of unemployed people, divided by the total number of workers available in the civilian labor force. Your 80k number is 4% of the metros total population. Available workers is generally about 50% of the total population, so available workers with a 4% unemployment rate in KC should be closer to 40k.

I believe it's actually unemployed people actively looking for work divided by workers in the force. If you're looking for number of people able to work but not, it's much higher than the original 80k. The point is, we should be working toward full employment of those in our community before bringing in cheap labor. There's a huge amount of people who have become so disillusioned with trying but not finding a job they just quit. They'd work if they were given a job and it was in their best financial interest to do so. There are lots of business owners, and apparently our mayor, who think these people are unemployable and would rather replace them with migrant workers. It’s mostly a greed/money argument.

FangKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 18, 2024 10:16 pm Statistics show that immigrants are less likely to commit a crime than US-born citizens.

The Mythical Tie Between Immigration and Crime

https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythica ... -and-crime

Immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born Americans, studies find

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/12371031 ... udies-find

Is anyone surprised that someone here illegally is less likely to do something that would bring attention to them?

The issue about people here illegally or "undocumented" if it hurts peoples feelings less, isn't what the stats are when compared to legal citizens side by side. Its fact that these situations like the Laken Riley murder are 100% preventable. There is literally zero reason to let anyone into this country without even the simplest form of vetting. We don't let people into our homes without knowing the basics. Of course we need immigrants to come here and of course we should welcome many with open arms, but we have limited resources and people to protect. We should be letting in what we need, not anyone and everyone.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:12 am ^ Many people are not counted an unemployed because they have literally given up looking for work.

Please explain how 80,000 Metro people are surviving if they have given up looking for work, and Missouri and Kansas have work requirements to get SNAP and TANF? Perhaps those workers who left the workforce just decided to retire early, or their household didn't need the extra income because their partner earns enough. Maybe they are not actively looking for work because they have started a business and work for themselves. Maybe they have gone back to school.

Lastly, scarcity in workers drives up wages which is a good thing and has to happen to allow workers to pay for the inflated price of housing.

I'm not opposed to people earning a living wage, but increasing wages also contributes to further inflation in all goods and services. The only real exception is when there is an overabundance of products on the market so prices are cut, or suddenly producers find cheaper ways to produce their goods and services. Deflation can lead to problems. If property owners have to cut rents dramatically to fill apartments, it might mean the property isn't producing adequate income to service their mortgage.

I still contest this point you are making about so many people sitting out of the economy waiting for the right wage.

Also, what is being left behind in the cultures where these workers left? You just emptied most of some Central America country of their young, able bodied, motivated men. What’s left in that culture? But, America’s bottom line, right?

Many of the people you are referring to left their country because they are failing economies, hyper-inflation, repressive governments, and violence. I'm not sure they are worried about the culture they left behind.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am Please explain how 80,000 Metro people are surviving if they have given up looking for work...

They crowd into houses with relatives. This is very, very common in poor areas that most on this board might not frequent. 'Grandma' owns a house and everyone lives with her.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am I'm not opposed to people earning a living wage, but increasing wages also contributes to further inflation in all goods and services.

I'd contend this isn't really the main cause of inflation. It's mostly our government massively increasing spending and the Fed turning the knob on the money printers up to 11.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am Many of the people you are referring to left their country because they are failing economies, hyper-inflation, repressive governments, and violence. I'm not sure they are worried about the culture they left behind.

You don't think they care about their culture?! And shouldn't we? What is being created in the vacuum when all the able-bodies, eager to work men in a society leave? I don't think we are as insulated from the world as maybe you do. And shouldn't we care about other cultures in the world? Why is Americas advice always "let's just bring them all to America". Seems rather arrogant. But, really this is just all about cash. Corporate leaders want cheap workers and even better if they can't talk back because they don't speak English.

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 19, 2024 8:12 am ^ Many people are not counted an unemployed because they have literally given up looking for work.

Please explain how 80,000 Metro people are surviving if they have given up looking for work...

I know you didn't just ask this question, did you?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 9:49 am

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am I'm not opposed to people earning a living wage, but increasing wages also contributes to further inflation in all goods and services.

I'd contend this isn't really the main cause of inflation. It's mostly our government massively increasing spending and the Fed turning the knob on the money printers up to 11.

Well, that would explain why inflation has been sky high since since deficit spending exploded after 2002 and the money printers got cranked up in 2008. It's certainly a more plausible explanation than inflation being driven by a sudden shortage of goods because a bunch of industries got caught flatfooted when they misjudged the effects that covid would have on demand for their products, which would really only explain a sudden run-up in inflation taking place over the past few years, not the crazy high inflation that we've been consistently seeing for the past couple decades now. Right?

FangKC wrote: ↑Sat Apr 20, 2024 5:16 am Many of the people you are referring to left their country because they are failing economies, hyper-inflation, repressive governments, and violence. I'm not sure they are worried about the culture they left behind.

You don't think they care about their culture?! And shouldn't we? What is being created in the vacuum when all the able-bodies, eager to work men in a society leave? I don't think we are as insulated from the world as maybe you do. And shouldn't we care about other cultures in the world? Why is Americas advice always "let's just bring them all to America". Seems rather arrogant. But, really this is just all about cash. Corporate leaders want cheap workers and even better if they can't talk back because they don't speak English.

Probably we should just be taking steps to prevent employers from exploiting any of their employees, rather than defending xenophobic policies with false claims of concern for others' cultures.