KCRag Forum

Although i hate to admit it, G2G is right on the money (he must be of the PS2 this week cause his brain is working).

#1: There were NO incentives involved in this project (although quick response from the State of KS and lack thereof from MO and KCMO didn't hurt which is the main reason the Sunflower State is winning the net game) and the decision was based purely on a real estate/organizational decision based on the following:

1. Better access to the airport; lets face it, US71 is not exactly a quick freeway to disperse, esp w/ the lights and during rush hour (didn't see anywhere in the article that they were concerned about being "centrally located" by the way) ;
2. Better access to employees--over 75% admin. employees live in JOCO
3. Better real estate investment decision--a $30 million investment will appreciate faster and hold its residual value much more in a growing Renner Blvd corridor rather than in an area in need of redevelopment.

That's it--no incentives required. Some of you should suck it up and say "WOW, projects CAN actually happen without any incentives from KS or MO! They actually decided to relocate based on what's right for their operations, clients and employees!!" How many times do you read in the paper about a company skipping state line w/out incentives (and yes, there are incentives available to nonprofits)? The majority of FOR PROFIT companies(Blackwell Saunders, HR Block, Waddell Reed, Lockton, Aquila, Farmland, Butler, etc.............................) can afford to go it w/out incentives but their hired guns (consultants, lawyers) suck on the welfare tit cause the game is played that way. That's just the way it is and always will be.

So for Christ's sake (no pun intended) think about this shit before getting all lathered up. How would you feel if someone ripped your ass about why you chose where to live? Last time I checked the Stars and Stripes were still flying over the White House.

#2: Being a Brookside yuppie (Izod is coming back finally!! Now I can only hope Member's Only/parachute pants make a come back and I am SET!!), think of the potential that this area now has: HCA has announced that they are going to invest $50 million into Research Hospital, the shopping center north of the Naz site is planned to be torn down and a new center constructed, there is some action on the Landing, KCMO Police is going to expand their East side building, GSA is going to build a new social security building in the area, etc.

Naz owns around 60 acres of prime land that, in my opinion, will suit better as housing. They are not going to sell the site so they have a vested interest in its redevelopment. Given the right plan, there is a great opportunity to develop a new community in the urban core that will provide more of what's needed -- quality, safe housing -- and not just another office building that is shut down at 5PM.

from Miami this week--TheDude is out.

Thanks Dude for setting us straight. Sometimes I think everybody gets their panties in a wad when these KS/MO, MO/KS relocations come up. We don't consider that there might be other reasons for relocation other than the almighty dollar. I hope that NAZ can come up with a plan to redevelop the campus in a manner which will positively impact the area. It seems like there is a great opportunity there.

Gotta get ready for the chiefs game......OUT

"DIE YUPPIE SCUM"

Yuppie scum?

Hmm...would the Nazarene Church be interested in developing some of their land into a quality residential neighborhood and be landlords? Maybe some kind of mixed income thinkg like the guy in KCK is doing? (City Vision Ministries- I believe its called?) What kind of an impact can religious groups have on a neighborhood by building like that?

phxcat wrote:Hmm...would the Nazarene Church be interested in developing some of their land into a quality residential neighborhood and be landlords? Maybe some kind of mixed income thinkg like the guy in KCK is doing? (City Vision Ministries- I believe its called?) What kind of an impact can religious groups have on a neighborhood by building like that?

I'm sure they'd jump all over that. I mean....who can't find the money, time and headace to be a skin flint land lord when you have a church to run.

I think {hillips Petroleum should also consider making Phillips screwdrivers!

KCMO finally caught wind of what was going on, and now they dont want to lose Church of Nazarene HQ to Lenexa.

http://kansascity.bizjournals.com/kansa ... ily53.html

Can we all say "too little, too late!" This is typical reactionary response from the City and EDC. For once, can't they be proactive instead of reactive. My understanding of the situation is that KCMO was approached to assist, but didn't seem interested and couldn't respond in a timely manner.

Also, is that 63rd Street site 40 acres? Of which 24 are vacant. Just pulled up the City's GIS data, listing the site at 524,223 sq. ft. = 12.03 acres. That's "slightly" less than 40 acres....

Soured milk makes sour cream. A good result can result from what appears initially to be a bad turn. This doesn't have to be a loss for KC. Another growing church might take over that property. Or better yet, Nazarene may sell it outright to a private developer who will return the land to the tax roles.

something some of you might be overlooking is the paragraph in the original article that relates to other portions of the Nazarene institution that is and will continue to operate near the area:

"The Lenexa land would be large enough to accommodate a publishing house and theological seminary that also are housed in buildings on the Paseo and at 2923 Troost Ave. Church leaders say that they don't expect those facilities to move but that the land would provide room for growth."

It sounds as though the Church is not going to simply pull all stakes and leave the area. In fact, it sounds as though operations will continue at the current NPH and NTS.

I was on the Blues Society's Fat Tuesday pub crawl last night and I talked to a devinity masters student on the bus. She said that the move to Lenexa wasn't well received and it isn't certain. I didn't really understand the details nor did I want to prod too much, but it sounded as if there was some sort of vote to be had.

If there is any truth or recency to what I was told, this might not be a done deal.

hope she wasn't drinking--aren't the Naz's dry? kinda got to wonder 'bout someone who doesn't partake....

i think staubio said the student he spoke to was on a public bus

i'd bet an ice cold pepsi she wasn't out hoobockering with a group of pub crawlers

dead in the water.....

Who'd want the Nazarene church as their landlord? Wouldn't they try and dictate your peronal business on their property? Or would it only be for Nazarene's? Then it would seem more like a religious comune.

I suppose all the Nazarenes in Olathe would explain the wacky, extreme right-wing politics in the city.

You know, I think this move will truly help the region.  I mean, Lenexa put in all those new sewers, we should try to use them and I’m sure the infrastructure near the old HQ is worn out anyway.

GRID wrote: You know, I think this move will truly help the region.  I mean, Lenexa put in all those new sewers, we should try to use them and I’m sure the infrastructure near the old HQ is worn out anyway.

That just sounds like crazy talk GRID. 

Lenexa is a good move for the church hq. Good clean christian people live in the suburbs, and only pagans, hippies, and minorities live in the city.

exactly, i think all churches should move to the suburbs, to leave us heathens to die in the filthy empty useless streets. this way the congregation is more likely to be conservative, well dressed, well mannered, and well behaved.

Church organizations are involved in redevelopment of neighborhoods for several reasons.  One purpose is to just help people who need homes. Another is to increase the number of parishioners. This is a problem in many inner-city areas where church membership has dropped so low that churches are forced to close. Another reason for church involvement is to provide affordable housing for low-income residents in areas where banks and finance companies won't take a risk. Churches also will become involved to improve the aethestics of the neighborhood in which the church exists. Some parishioners become reluctant to come to a church building in an area they perceive as run-down or dangerous. This can affect a church's ability to attract volunteers from the suburbs. This is especially true when we are talking about a church headquarters that represents an entire region.  Members of the Nazarene Church that live in Olathe or Lenexa may not want to come to Troost or the Paseo.

There is also what I call the CEO effect.  Businesses and headquarters leave the central city because the CEO and upper management live in the distant suburbs, and don't want to drive into the city anymore.  Thus, places like Corporate Woods are created. This does occur fairly often. That is why residential sprawl is such a threat to the original city's economy and tax base.  It is also caused when executives, management, and professionals can't find luxury housing in the central parts of the city, or even enough housing that has modern amenities. In this case, the top level people that run the Nazarene headquarters may all live in Johnson County.

We are seeing expensive downtown lofts being sold at a good rate, which is an illustration of the demand for quality housing near the city's core.  There are a lot of people who live in the suburbs that would live in Kansas  City if there were more neighborhoods like Brookside, Armour Hills, Valentine, Volker, Hyde Park, and Coleman Highlands.

Having Nazarene take its church headquarters out of central Kansas City is not necessarily a bad thing for the city.  If the land is sold to a developer who creates quality housing to sell, then several acres of land returns to the tax rolls at some point. Churches don't pay taxes, yet the city must still provide basic services for them.

It would also be an opportunity--like Beacon Hill--to provide more decent housing east of Troost. The city needs to encourage redevelopment and renovation of homes in declining neighborhoods on the eastern periphery of Brookside and Waldo and slowly create a spillover effect.  Kansas City really does need more to create more housing for younger families in the center of the city instead of the Northland.  Every vacant lot or abandoned home is a drain on the city's resources and schools. The city must replace neighborhoods of renters with neighborhoods of owners. Residents must have a long-term investment in their community. Renters don't create that needed stability.

Adding more residents also creates a need for retail, which in turn also provides additional city revenue. In a given year, most KC residents pay a lot more in sales taxes, surcharges, than in property taxes. I would guess that a good number of central KC residents shop in the suburbs now. Kansas City loses a lot of tax revenue from its own residents.  The reason for this is that large areas of KC don't have good grocery, hardware, discount, and department stores.  Those residents have to drive 60-80 blocks to get to the few on the periphery of KC proper. The city won't keep or regain its own residents' sales tax revenue until it can repopulate core areas and add retail.

Last time I was in KC(few years ago), I and my traveling companions were shocked at how few grocery stores there were in Midtown KC. Like you said, the eastside is even more pitiful. I thought that a urban marketplace was going in around Brush Creek Blvd. It's about friggin time. This should help people on the eastside get food and supplies easier.