KCRag Forum

loftguy wrote:
I can recognize value in this development, but an anchor taking a prime site on Grand Blvd.? Someone enlighten me.

Grand is grand in name alone. This "major" boulevard is embarrasingly underdeveloped through the CBD.

10th, 12th and Grand (entire city blocks) have been undeveloped surface lots for years. Y facility is as good a repurpose of these parcels as anything else. Especially if designed properly as the anchor level of large mixed use building.

Another positive, immediate proximity of residential. (Apartments at 10th and Grand, Courthouse apartments, Fed development, Professional Building, Wallstreet Tower, etc.) thousands of residents a stones' throw away. East Village is walkable too, just a quick hop past 3-4 massive, abandoned surface lots, and you're at the gym. Hotel visitors - easy. just walk past all of the undeveloped land until you see a shiny new gym. easy. can't miss it.

Grand is so obviously the best option that I struggle to stay calm when people suggest anything different. I just get so easily distraught over CBD development decisions. Why would we even imagine developing the outer rings of the CBD until the core has been developed. It just makes no sense.

KC-wildcat wrote:

loftguy wrote:
I can recognize value in this development, but an anchor taking a prime site on Grand Blvd.? Someone enlighten me.

Grand is grand in name alone. This "major" boulevard is embarrasingly underdeveloped through the CBD.

10th, 12th and Grand (entire city blocks) have been undeveloped surface lots for years. Y facility is as good a repurpose of these parcels as anything else. Especially if designed properly as the anchor level of large mixed use building.

Another positive, immediate proximity of residential. (Apartments at 10th and Grand, Courthouse apartments, Fed development, Professional Building, Wallstreet Tower, etc.) thousands of residents a stones' throw away. East Village is walkable too, just a quick hop past 3-4 massive, abandoned surface lots, and you're at the gym. Hotel visitors - easy. just walk past all of the undeveloped land until you see a shiny new gym. easy. can't miss it.

Grand is so obviously the best option that I struggle to stay calm when people suggest anything different. I just get so easily distraught over CBD development decisions. Why would we even imagine developing the outer rings of the CBD until the core has been developed. It just makes no sense.

I would love to see a corporate tower go up on the entire block at 10th and Grand. However, there is little likelihood of that happening anytime soon. If one were to come into play, it would probably go at 13th and Grand anyway.

The YMCA would be a good additional on that block, and help refill the street wall along Grand. It would also bring some activity to that area at night, and on the weekends, when it's normally dead.

Midtownkid wrote:I understand why people want to see that on Grand, near the P&L, but I don't agree. Imagine the city in a few years, assuming the economy and retail bounce back a bit. We would much rather see lots or retail along Grand than a stinky YMCA. Just put it a block or two over...away from the main avenues of DT. Maybe it could be built within the Argyle Building somehow? Further up Grand, closer to the old Fed Reserve or between the Library District and Quality Hill on a massive surface lot maybe?

Exciting news in any case. Hope the old Y in Quality Hill can find a new use fast! It's a beautiful building, shouldn't be too hard.

I tend to agree. Of course, I have a dream of seeing Grand develop as a retail boulevard anchored my a Macy's and Target and a resurrected "shoppers parkade" garage on the 1000 block - however unrealistic that might be. Regardless, the potential along Grand is too much to plop down a YMCA. Seems like it would be a good centerpiece for the East Village. Somebody spoke of a YMCA creating activity at night. That's what the East Village needs more than anything right now, something to draw people over there. I don't have a strong feeling toward the EV, it's just an initial thought.

BUT, who says what gets built is going to be urban in context and quality? Do we have any indication they're not going to just plop down a larger version of the cookie-cutter YMCA's like they have on S. Troost and on Parallel in western KCK? Something like that, even built along the sidewalk, up against the street, would definitely not be something I want to see along Grand.

I'm assuming the location will go to whatever company donates the most money for this project, I would assume UMB owns the spot on 10th and Grand, DST owns the one at Wyandotte. I would also predict JE Dunn donates a large sum and does the construction of the building. The company with the deepest pockets is UMB, so it's gonna go at 10th and Grand and this Y location is a great start for that "Make Grand Grand" project the kempers have spearheaded.

Excellent point brew.

BUT, who says what gets built is going to be urban in context and quality? Do we have any indication they're not going to just plop down a larger version of the cookie-cutter YMCA's like they have on S. Troost and on Parallel in western KCK? Something like that, even built along the sidewalk, up against the street, would definitely not be something I want to see along Grand

They have indicated this would be their "flagship" YMCA for the area and be nearly double the size of any other YMCA in the region. It would also hold all of the offices for the admin for the area. The guy in charge seemed to set a tone of "lets make this something special for DT", as opposed to something generic or suburban. But, I haven't seen any renderings or anything. That is just the sense I got.

The example they kept citing was the new YMCA in downtown Nashville. Looks pretty good to me. It's a little low rise, but it's right up agains the sidewalk, and it's pleasant to walk past.

http://bit.ly/t4qMx0

After doing a quick google search on "new downtown ymca" this is what i came up with.


Houston



Grand Rapids, MI



Detroit

I could definitely see the Houston and Detroit designs along grand.. not sure about the Grand Rapids building.

Detroits and Houston's are the style I am hoping for. Those would fit in well.

I also think that block is big enough to put a tower on top, build a 1000 car garage and have them share it. Maybe don't need to build the tower right now, but at least plan for it in the future.

Dallas



Berkeley (rehabbed abandoned building)



Phoenix (re-use old building attached to new building)

I wonder if they could put it up in the old Mark Twain Building somehow? My dad always used to talk about the beautiful gym and pool etc they have somewhere on the upper floors. An adaptive reuse would be nice. I would rather see that building used at lofts or a hotel though.

Midtownkid wrote:I wonder if they could put it up in the old Mark Twain Building somehow? My dad always used to talk about the beautiful gym and pool etc they have somewhere on the upper floors. An adaptive reuse would be nice. I would rather see that building used at lofts or a hotel though.

The article quoted someone from the DTC ( I believe) that they would like them to consider the Mark Twain building.

The problem with the Mark Twain Building is that it only has one pool, and the YMCA wants three pools. I don't know if the Mark Twain can be re-engineered to have three pools.

FangKC wrote:The problem with the Mark Twain Building is that it only has one pool, and the YMCA wants three pools. I don't know if the Mark Twain can be re-engineered to have three pools.

Perhaps the adjacent parking garage could fiddled around with to have the pools underneath it or at ground level (with the garage having a couple floors added)?
Hell, afterwards, you could possibly cap the top of the garage and make it an outdoor rec area.

Uh...if they're willing to build inside the loop, why would we not want them to do that? Leave the Mark Twain building for another use that can't afford new construction.

TheBigChuckbowski wrote:Uh...if they're willing to build inside the loop, why would we not want them to do that? Leave the Mark Twain building for another use that can't afford new construction.

Spot on. Besides, we have surface lots to fill.

As for the various examples, I think I like Detroit's best, even though it looks like a small conventon center. Grand Rapids' looks like a suburban arena. Nashville's front is alright, but a little obsessive compulsive and overwhelming.

Maybe we could build it on top of OKCP and make a really tall tower. Maybe we could build it into the side of the hill at liberty memorial. Maybe we could put it in Science City. Maybe we could put it in lee's summit in conjunction with commuter rail. Or, bear with me, put it inside kemper arena.





Or......





We could put it on a fucking surface lot in the smack dab heart of the CBD.

How big would a 100,000 sq. foot building be? Floors. Footprint. Can someone suggest a similar-sized building for comparison?