KCRag Forum

I play tennis quite often at pvp.....its a fine park but yes needs to get more regular people use. Organized trail would help.

Side note....why isn't the tennis court on Barney Allis open for public use.....the concrete is there and not protected from people walking over it....if they would just throw up a net and a couple backstops there would be a great downtown tennis court for all to use.....WITH LIGHTS.

GRID wrote: Most towns make you want to jump out of your car and into the parks.  "wow, we should have brought the bikes to take in this city"

So you would want to bike through PVP on a 90 degree day in the summer?  That park is kind of hilly just to let you know.

PVP is going through a roadway redesign so you can see more of the lake and things like that, i forgot what the whole details of it but it looks like it will join the entire park.

The only reason why PVP is a park is probably because the land was way to hilly to even develop housing, this is how a lot of parks today are developed.  Many are too close to floodplain or on hilly terrian so the developer donates the land to the city and a park is created.

brewcrew1000 wrote: So you would want to bike through PVP on a 90 degree day in the summer?  That park is kind of hilly just to let you know.

PVP is going through a roadway redesign so you can see more of the lake and things like that, i forgot what the whole details of it but it looks like it will join the entire park.

The only reason why PVP is a park is probably because the land was way to hilly to even develop housing, this is how a lot of parks today are developed.  Many are too close to floodplain or on hilly terrian so the developer donates the land to the city and a park is created.

OK, nevermind.

KC is fine

I don't get it. Are bike lanes the only evidence of urban recreation?

Tons of examples have been given here. This is just more of GRID wishing he still lived here and trying to justify his horrible decision to leave by bashing those of us who are still here.

I'll be doing plenty of urban recreating outside this weekend. And wherever I am, there will be more people than in most of the pictures of empty parks GRID posted here.

The beach shot in Milwaukee was nice - has KC dropped the ball by not having Lake Michigan?

I've pushed for better parks and trails in KC since long before I left.

Seems like an easy fix and that's why I have always pushed for it, but if you want to take it as bashing.  So be it.

PVP is a pretty modest park. Forest Park is a realy rarity in city parks, especially in mid-sized cities. PVP is closer to something like Carondolet Park in size, and Tower Grove Park in scope. Swope is our "big" park, and Swope is a great park. It is neck and neck with the Jefferson National Memorial in StL and Millenium Park in Chicago and Rockaway Beach in NYC for annual visitors. It get more visitors than the similarly oriented Rock Creek Park in DC, Audubon Park in NOLA, Herman Park in Houston, the Monon Greenway in Indy, Lake Harriet/Lyndale Park in MPLS, etc.

Our model for PVP should be Eden Park in Cincy, a city known for its parks system (although there are certainly a whole host of shady/underutilized Cincy Parks).

What you seem to really want, GRID, is not more recreation, but simply more linear parks/trails (and apparently ones with bridges). Good goal, poor priority if you ask me.

No, KC has plenty of things many of those other towns I'm sure wish they had.

I don't think Tulsa has a 420 million dollar performing arts center.  Not sure if Memphis has a MLB team.  Bla bla bla.

Constructive criticism people.  I see something that KC could easily improve and create something dramatic.

I guess you guys are fine with the way things are.

Sort of reminds me of the people I argued with about Kemper when it needed to be replaced.  It was fine, what's your problem?, I went to a concert there last week, we still get concerts.  We don't need a new arena just because other towns have one.

This is simply something that KC could really improve and the benefits would be dramatic to locals, suburbanites and tourists.  It might even help people in the suburbs there hate the urban core just a little less!

It's on the list of improvements that I think KC needs.

Better transit, convention hotel, better urban recreation.

Or not.  Don't do anything.  Whatever.  You don't see it as a need.  Fine.  I get it.

Do you REALLY feel your first post was constructive criticism?  Really?

Lay out your plan on what kc should do....I think that would be interesting and more thought provoking....as detailed as possible.

Some engineer who works at KCMO mentioned the only reason why Kauffman was built where it is today was because it was the cheapest, largest and flattest land KC could use, if they made a better decision on the placement of Kauffman, it might have been in a better location like downtown or crossroads. The crossroads probably wouldn't have been an empty warehouse district if Kauffman was built there in the late 60's, it's only now it's just coming back but still has a ways to go.

Maybe we need to blame the planners, parks department and engineers as to why our city is not up to the standards of how GRID likes it?  :lol:

GRID wrote: 1) I guess you guys are fine with the way things are.

2) Sort of reminds me of the people I argued with about Kemper when it needed to be replaced.  It was fine, what's your problem?, I went to a concert there last week, we still get concerts.  We don't need a new arena just because other towns have one.

3) Or not.  Don't do anything.  Whatever.  You don't see it as a need.  Fine.  I get it.

Understand GRID in three easy steps. Look for these same demeaning quotes and strawmen in a thread near you!

GRID, I see your point, I think much can be improved, but you gotta change your tone man, or your risk getting a hostile reaction every time. It comes off as an outsider telling those that got "stuck" behind what they need to do to improve their sorry lot. Anyway, let's address the substantive point - I think there is way more we could do. Bike lines should be a top priority. Is there any kind of comprehensive Parks Plan?

I would like to see us use the river more. There are long-term plans to make the riverfront more bike-friendly - the shake ups at the Port Authority may delay that. I would like to see PVP more utilized - it should really be our crown jewel park, and its location is prime. But it just seems so isolated. I don't think its entirely the topography either, I think its how the surrounding streets kinda barricade it. And there's probably not enough as far as amenities for a park that large.

Kessler Park is also a hidden gem that could be a great park. Case Park is in a great location, but has turned shady. How do we turn these parks around?  

OTOH, we do have a fair amount of urban recreation. The Trolley Track has been packed. Look at all the joggers and bikers at Mill Park. Loose Park has a ton of runners and bikers and the tennis courts are packed. There is a large bike ride through Waldo and Prairie Village every week. Disc golf at Swope Park seems to be well utilized. We certainly have well-used assets to build on.

brewcrew1000 wrote: Some engineer who works at KCMO mentioned the only reason why Kauffman was built where it is today was because it was the cheapest, largest and flattest land KC could use, if they made a better decision on the placement of Kauffman, it might have been in a better location like downtown or crossroads. The crossroads probably wouldn't have been an empty warehouse district if Kauffman was built there in the late 60's, it's only now it's just coming back but still has a ways to go.

Maybe we need to blame the planners, parks department and engineers as to why our city is not up to the standards of how GRID likes it?  :lol:

The planners, engineers and LEADERS are exactly who is to blame.  I'm not blaming the residents.

The original plan for the stadiums was to build a single purpose domed stadium about where the PAC is now.  

KC instead went the route the TSC for many reasons.  It was cheaper, they wanted to go the dual stadium route and Jackson County wanted to spur growth out east.

That land was not exactly flat and easy to develop.  That's one reason the area around it is not developed.  But it was a huge chunk of land that required very little property acquisition.

Had the dome been built.  KC would probably have a modern downtown baseball only stadium today and the football stadium could have ended up in any part of the metro including KS side which would have been nice actually to take some of the pressure off the MO side.

Jackson County is extremely poorly run and has always has a more suburban and even rural mentality than urban.  Sanders seems to be a little more pro urban, but the county still seems to act as if central KCMO is in another county.

KCMax wrote: GRID, I see your point, I think much can be improved, but you gotta change your tone man...

Yea, I know.  I can come across very condescending, when that is not really what I'm trying to do.

I apologize for that.

KCP, I have posted ideas and detailed plans in the past.  So have you on how to improve PVP...

Yeah I remember my dream of covering broadway and making it a big tunnel   a nice ped bridge would be a great start to link the park up.

WAIT! I GOT IT!

We need to close Broadway through PVP and build these gondolas...

A sweeping, arched pedestrian link needs to be build from a top the eastern bluff, over Broadway, and down to the lower lake area.  If it was really eye catching and beautiful it would draw people's attention to the park again and also making that area more accessible by foot.  Broadway is not the best place to cross, it basically cuts the two areas off from each other.

current conditions



improvements with 2 bridge locations



crappy 2 minute rendering of the basic bridge shape

FWIW,  there is a plan in the works to add "bicycle rental" stations to areas around downtown.  It's a neat idea, if maybe a bit "cart before the horse" considering our lack of bicycle lanes. 

The way it's supposed to work is you run a credit card to unlock a rental bike, take it wherever you want, and drop it off at any other station.  You're charged for the time you keep it. 

This is being spearheaded by Rick Usher, Assistant to the City Manager for Downtown Development, and also an avid biker and quite adept at the unicycle.  He's fired up about this, and I know there are a handful  locations in the Crossroads that have agreed to offer up space for the rental stations.  Other than that, I don't know if it's been financed or not. 

San Francisco closes streets in Golden Gate Park on Sundays so bikers, skaters, etc. can use it with no fear of cars.

Now they have a program to close various other streets on Sundays.  I think this sort of thing, with the right promotion, could bring people to areas that otherwise they might not visit.

Question - as a kid we went to Wyandotte County Lake.  The last time I visited was on a Labor day weekend.  It was still lovely, but completely empty.  We never saw another car.  My aunt said it's a dangerous place.  Info?

That's weird.  We go to WyCo Lake a few times a year, on nice weekends, to walk around the Lake.  It always seems to be packed with families doing picnics and the Lodge usually has a wedding or something going on.  And you usually have to dodge out of the way of cars and motorcycles doing the loop.

As for dangerous, I never got that vibe.  Lots of families with lots of kids.

it is probably about as dangerous as prairie village.

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