Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

[trailerkid]

Heartbeat of a city to means to me for the residents.

It's still evolving even during the economic conditions....let it grow. I get it, your thing is to bitch about everything in KC.  We get it.

having a problem with subsidized, wildly mediocre P&L restaurants = bitching about everything in KC? OK. You win. We all lose.

[trailerkid]

 The number of times I've heard "wow we need something like this in my city" outnumbers "this isn't world class" 100 to 1 

people from Omaha, Tulsa, Des Moines, right? par.

[KCPowercat]

Smaller and larger cities....such as the Lou, Cincinnati, Cleveland, minneapolis, etc.

[beautyfromashes]

Seriously, who is your dog in this fight because it seems like you have a vendetta.  I don't know you personally, so what is it...angry artist mad at corporate America? former downtown building owner pushed out by development? hipster wannabe who thinks themselves more cool by downing popularality? staggering drunk? There has to be some reason to your absolute madness.

[trailerkid]

Seriously, who is your dog in this fight because it seems like you have a vendetta.  I don't know you personally, so what is it...angry artist mad at corporate America? former downtown building owner pushed out by development? hipster wannabe who thinks themselves more cool by downing popularality? staggering drunk? There has to be some reason to your absolute madness.

you're right...it's all just a perception i invented. P&L is great. ask any local and they'll agree. what was i thinking?

[KCPowercat]

Tk....its not a secret or a minority opinion you complain about it all. I give a lot more credibility to complaints to those that a) live here and b) don't phone about every topic mentioned here. We all lose.

[trailerkid]

Tk....its not a secret or a minority opinion you complain about it all. I give a lot more credibility to complaints to those that a) live here and b) don't phone about every topic mentioned here. We all lose.

please decipher this for me. no idea where you're going with this.

[beautyfromashes]

Tk....its not a secret or a minority opinion you complain about it all. I give a lot more credibility to complaints to those that a) live here and b) don't phone about every topic mentioned here. We all lose.

Good lord! That guy doesn't even live here? Why am I wasting my time?

[kcmetro]

you're right...it's all just a perception i invented. P&L is great. ask any local and they'll agree. what was i thinking?

Actually, pretty much every local will agree that the P&L is great for what its purpose is...entertaining people and providing a great nightlife in Kansas City.  It doesn't matter if there aren't any great restaurants or retail down there.  People don't go there to shop.  They go there to party and drink.  And it's one of the best spots you could possibly find in a city the size of KC.  The place is packed to the gills on the weekends, and there are plenty of bar options for whatever it is you like.  Having been out in other cities, I'd say it's pretty damn hard to beat what KC has with the P&L.  If that's no your scene, then it's not your scene.  But just because you don't fit in there, doesn't mean it sucks.  Maybe you should keep to Henry's or the Bourgeois Pig.

[trailerkid]

Good lord! That guy doesn't even live here? Why am I wasting my time?

this attitude has gotten kc REALLY FAR over the last 40 years. ask the airport.

[KCPowercat]

Phone = bitch

There are more than two outcomes for p&l other than 'world class' and failure....and success isn't classified as only exactly what the YouTube marketing video from cordish described....at least to me.

[KC-wildcat]

Pretty much agree with TK here. Cordish didn't bring in anything all that earth-shattering. What they did get is OK, and obviously an improvement over what was there, but it is undeniably a disappointment relative to what we were sold. That's fine. I'll take it (not that I have a choice) but acting like P&L is now or will soon be anything even remotely deserving of being called "world-class" is pure and simple self-delusion. They're never even going to get something as relatively pedestrian as a Bobby Flay concept, let alone a second location for moto, etc. And I think the "jeez, let it grow" argument is BS. This isn't an organic development that will take time to mature, it is a master-planned super-district which, if they could have gotten something huge and major and world-class, they'd have done it from the beginning. It makes zero sense to be like, "We've got Ferran Adria waiting to open up El Bulli 2 here in KC, but we're going to hold out a few years to let it grow first." What!?  Ridiculous.

You make some valid points, but I disagree with your dismissal of the "organic development" idea.  

In my mind, the P&L is a neighborhood that will grow and transform over time.  Just like the Country Club Plaza.  And, like the country club plaza, it's going to take more than 2 years to become the premier dining and shopping district in Kansas City.  Brand Recognition.  The citizens of KC associate the best and brightest with the Plaza.  Thus, high end retailers and restuaranteurs are going to go where the their product is going to be seen by the largest demographic.  

Today, in 2010, the CBD just doesn't compete with the dining/shopping experience on CCPlaza.  The CBD, as a neighborhood, lags way behind other areas in the urban core.  Just in terms of sheer numbers, the CBD isn't even remotely close to reaching its potential.  IDK, maybe I take too simplistic of an approach.  But, I feel that as the CBD neighborhood grows, it will garner many of the benefits of a heavily populated urban area.  Conversely, until its density improves, it will fail to garner many of these benefits.  

IMO, high end retail/dining is a "benefit" of heavy population.  

[LenexatoKCMO]

It doesn't matter if there aren't any great restaurants or retail down there.  People don't go there to shop.  They go there to party and drink.  

You describe the problem - the district was supposed to be mixed use but it has really only succeeded with one use.  The residential has never got off the ground; the sparse retail they have brought in has all been pretty sad; and the dining has had mixed results at best.  They hit the ball out of the park as far as the bar/nightlife use - but the very fact that you can't even recognize all of the other facets the district was supposed to deliver illustrates the problems.  If it was just going to be a bar/nightlife district, they only needed the one block, and a hell of a lot less development money. 

[trailerkid]

Phone = bitch

There are more than two outcomes for p&l other than 'world class' and failure....and success isn't classified as only exactly what the YouTube marketing video from cordish described....at least to me.

never once did i call it a failure as a development. although, the fact it can't cover its bonds could make that an arguable statement. what was promised and what was delivered are two entirely different things. nightlife element was delivered up to expectations, but everything else was flat. the restaurants as an aggregate (relative to the dining scene in KC-- which gets more competitive each year) SUCK ASS.

[KCPowercat]

Does nobody else realize the absolute get cosentinos and amc were?  Garment district and envolve are pretty awesome as well.

Am I taking crazy pills or is everyone else, I can't decide.

[trailerkid]

You describe the problem - the district was supposed to be mixed use but it has really only succeeded with one use.  The residential has never got off the ground; the sparse retail they have brought in has all been pretty sad; and the dining has had mixed results at best.  They hit the ball out of the park as far as the bar/nightlife use - but the very fact that you can't even recognize all of the other facets the district was supposed to deliver illustrates the problems.  If it was just going to be a bar/nightlife district, they only needed the one block, and a hell of a lot less development money. 

[chrizow]

im with mean and TK on this one.  the only unique "urban amenity" the P+L brings to KC (or any downtown) is a large cluster of themed bars around a common courtyard.  i'm sure that really blows some people away, but to suggest it truly fills the gaping hole in downtown or somehow adds a new heartbeat to KC is laughable.  almost all the tenants are of the caliber announced on a weekly basis going in to Summit Fair or Legends or One Corbin Place.  we're so starved for urban amenities in KC (and many cities in the region generally) that we basically creamed our collective pants when a grocery store opened downtown - something that is par for the course in actual, thriving neighborhoods, urban or suburban.  

what do we really expect the P+L is going to become as it "matures?"  are we actually hoping the P+L itself is going to improve, or that it's going to cause amazing - world class! - spinoff development?  i personally think neither of these is the case.  so far the "spinoff" development has been a place called "power and light grille" and a couple of shady faux-"VIP" nightclubs.

right now we have a $800M (think about that!) JoCo strip mall condensed into Chipotle-style, downtown-Boulder style urbanism, anchored by a nightlife mall.  

i know that i am not often in the mainstream, but i will say that absolutely no one i know likes the P+L, that the very mention of it brings nothing but groans and mocking, etc.  everyone likes a tenant or two (i like flying saucer and peachtree), but overall it's a tremendously underwhelming place, particularly given the incredible fiscal and political resources used to make it happen.  i dont care if youre from minneapolis or des moines, if you think the P+L is "world class" anything you're applying a Monett, MO mindset.  

[KCPowercat]

I am not at all saying the restaurants are overall great....but I also am not ready to say they will never be great.

The bonds aren't being covered....everybody freak. Let's ignore the massive overhaul of 9 blocks of infrastructure and assets....the bonds are falling short a couple years....all is lost.

[KC-wildcat]

people from Omaha, Tulsa, Des Moines, right? par.

Syracuse, NY.  

Went to Big XII tourny.  College student from Syracuse had been flown out to KC to participate in a Dick Vitale impersonation competition during halftime of one of the games.  

After the game, we ran into this kid and his dad at the Live! Block.  Well, they were both east coast guys, and to hear them talk about how impressed they were with DTKC made me really proud, actually.  Maybe it's sad that I felt that way.  Maybe it's an indictment of our city's poor image on the east coast.  

Bottom line, the kid said that they had nothing like this where he was from.  And that it was the best sporting event he had ever been to.  Said the environment was much better than the Big East Tournament event.  At Madison Square GArden, the Big East Tourny is arguably the best NCAA tourny event anywhere!  And, the kid from Syracuse said the Big XII event in DTKC was better.  

FWIW.    

BTW, he said that when the NCAA regional returns to KC, he's gonna make a pitch to his friends about coming to town..  

[LenexatoKCMO]

I am not at all saying the restaurants are overall great....but I also am not ready to say they will never be great.

The bonds aren't being covered....everybody freak. Let's ignore the massive overhaul of 9 blocks of infrastructure and assets....the bonds are falling short a couple years....all is lost.

One of those blocks is a mostly vacant retail mall.  Combined there are close to two blocks worth of surface parking and gravel lot.