KCRag Forum

KCMax wrote: I tend to agree with Chef. I don't see why every area has to be mixed use. This area is physically separated from much of downtown. Seems like its the perfect area to have as an industrial area - which it is. When there are so many other areas that need to be more densely developed, I would think building any kind of residential units in the West Bottoms would rank extremely low on my list of priorities for the city.

There are residential units in the West Bottoms.  This sort of blanket statement is why the area remains disconnected. As a former resident, I would have appreciated sidewalks that were not broken and clear signage and lighting.  I don't see why that can't happen - its not like the built up warehouse part of the area is similar to other 100% industrial areas.  Does anyone argue that the longfellow or east downtown areas should remain industrial because that's what they predominantly are now?

There is a law prohibiting residential zoning within 100 feet of a train crossing.
This city has better priorities elsewhere. 

Voltopt has the issues squared up.  Understand also that the train companies lobbied and won to have residential development barred from buildings 100-feet from a train crossing.  This is a paraphrasing, but true.

'Industrial hegemony' will keep the area itself for awhile.  Please, KC, build on what you have- Crossroads, River Market- until you spread yourself even thinner. 

How did they accomplish this?  Was it preventing having the buildings re-zoned?  What happens if something is zoned commercial or industrial and you rent out a floor to someone to do what they will with, and they end up turning it into a living space?  Do you get fined?

Unsure. 

Residential usage is at its most flagrant, however, as its ever been. 

Burlap Lofts/Good JuJu and 1409 Studios being the most prominent. 

WinchesterMysteryHouse wrote: Voltopt has the issues squared up.  Understand also that the train companies lobbied and won to have residential development barred from buildings 100-feet from a train crossing.  This is a paraphrasing, but true.

'Industrial hegemony' will keep the area itself for awhile.  Please, KC, build on what you have- Crossroads, River Market- until you spread yourself even thinner. 

Don't believe it's true that the railroads have prevented residential development.  Developers have simply chosen not to, to date (with permits, etc...), other than Columbia Burlap.

Hate to say it, but it seems like the West Bottoms would be a good location for a few big-box stores.

I hate this shit as much as the next guy, but a lot of people shop at Target and Wal-Mart.  Myself included.  Give people a reason to go down there.  We've already got the huge surface lots.  And there isn't a target or wal-mart anywhere near downtown.  Every resident from mid town to River market would shop at these stores.  Generate some activity down there, for god's sake. 

People don't avoid it just for the sake of avoiding it.  There's nothing down there. 

KC-wildcat wrote: Hate to say it, but it seems like the West Bottoms would be a good location for a few big-box stores.

I hate this shit as much as the next guy, but a lot of people shop at Target and Wal-Mart.  Myself included.  Give people a reason to go down there.  We've already got the huge surface lots.  And there isn't a target or wal-mart anywhere near downtown.  Every resident from mid town to River market would shop at these stores.  Generate some activity down there, for god's sake.  

People don't avoid it just for the sake of avoiding it.  There's nothing down there.  

I'd much rather see a Target in a high visibility area in the CBD or Crossroads. Preferably in a multi-story unit, but heck, we have the space that they could probably even put a big box if they wanted to. Putting one in the West Bottoms alone would just give you a retail island that wouldn't really help much. Putting one in the Crossroads near where many residents already live could possibly spur additional retail development.

KCMax wrote: I'd much rather see a Target in a high visibility area in the CBD or Crossroads. Preferably in a multi-story unit, but heck, we have the space that they could probably even put a big box if they wanted to. Putting one in the West Bottoms alone would just give you a retail island that wouldn't really help much. Putting one in the Crossroads near where many residents already live could possibly spur additional retail development.

I agree with this.  I think that the CBD needs to be completely fixed before addressing places like the west bottoms.  Plenty of surface lot in CBD and X-Roads for urban retail.   

Just sayin that bix box development would be a way to bring people down there. 

See Columbia Heights in DC.  They built a 'Mall' type thing for all these Big Box stores and surrounded it with historic-looking apartment buildings.  The area changed from scary to hipster to fake hipster in the course of this decade.  The 'mall' includes a Target, Best Buy, and BB Beyond among other things.  This development was well-done for the tight urban site, but still not my favorite thing around.  It is extremely popular though and put that area of the city on the map for sure.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01005.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_H ... ngton,_D.C.

the greater downtown area plan recommends the west bottoms be redeveloped as mixed use.

The WB are an area that I think can develop just fine naturally.  I don't think it has the importance that it needs to be massively redeveloped here and now with incentives and that sort of thing.  Let nature take its course there and engineer the rest of the core. 

I think the issue is that it can't really redevelop on its own if it's largely zoned industrial and residential conversions require re-zonings and special permits.

LenexatoKCMO wrote: The WB are an area that I think can develop just fine naturally. 

See Wendy's, gas station, and haunted houses.   


I do agree that incentives should not be pumped into that area of DT.  Pretty low on my hierarchy of development needs in the DT area. 

ComandanteCero wrote: I think the issue is that it can't really redevelop on its own if it's largely zoned industrial and residential conversions require re-zonings and special permits.

Yea, I'm all for more flexible re-zoning there, but I agree that economic incentives are not needed. I think the area is also not quite as deserted as people think it is. There are small businesses and light industry all over the place.

KCMax wrote: Yea, I'm all for more flexible re-zoning there, but I agree that economic incentives are not needed.

Agreed.  It seems that many of the tax abatements and other incentives used in the Crossroads ended up having a stalling influence on development there (i.e boosting real estate prices very quickly and pricing out many of the small businesses and artists who could have continued building the area up).  On the one hand I doubt there would have been as many high end renovations/businesses in such a short period of time as there ended up being, but maybe the growth of the area would have been a steadier increase.  Who knows?  Again, the Crossroads has a lot of existing businesses that exist behind ugly facades. Maybe it was just a question of all the vacant spots getting taken over... don't know enough about the area to say one way or the other.  But for a long time there were places that looked like they weren't being occupied by anything or anyone, and I've wondered why someone hasn't moved in there...

It would be interesting to look at how the Crossroads has developed and see if anything can be learned from it.  My gut reaction is that if the city were to invest in the West Bottoms it should be limited to improving infrastructure (i.e sidewalks, streets).

http://www.kansascity.com/business/story/1692461.html

?Todd Schulte and Tracy Zinn, owners of Happy Gillis Cafe & Hang Out, 549 Gillis St., are planning a new concept for the West Bottoms to open in May or June. It will be across from the Livestock Exchange Building.

build one successful node, then spread out from there. excellent news!

I'm guessing that this will be in the old Connie's.

bobbyhawks wrote: I'm guessing that this will be in the old Connie's.

I'd originally heard this was going in an "old gas station" on Gennessee - maybe just north of the cross street that runs into the Livestock Exchange Building?

Very much looking forward to this - was down at the R Bar last Saturday and they had a really nice crowd and a band. Hopefully, the HG lunch business does well. I'd like to see R Bar start serving lunch again too.