KCRag Forum

agreed, although I think the restaurants will be fine too...once again, as the newness wears off.  Downtown- glitzy/plastic but ped friendly environment surrounded by interesting gritty downtown.  Plaza- Elegant and also very ped friendly environment amongst parklands and 'uptown' housing.  They are just so different, they can both survive.

I think they're serving different markets.  I think upscale diners will still flock to the Plaza.  Bristol downtown will do well, but P&L needs more restaurants and better ones.  Much of the Live block food is very mediocre to poor in my opinion and I'm not very picky.  I think P&L is taking a huge chunk of the Plaza's bar scene.  P&L is definitely the place to go out and have a good time.  That's why the restaurants on the Plaza will be fine, but they won't see the heavy bar crowds they use to on a Friday/Saturday night.  I haven't going out to the bars on the Plaza in probably 6 months, but I have gone down there for dinner.

KCFan wrote: I think they're serving different markets.  I think upscale diners will still flock to the Plaza.  Bristol downtown will do well, but P&L needs more restaurants and better ones.  Much of the Live block food is very mediocre to poor in my opinion and I'm not very picky.  I think P&L is taking a huge chunk of the Plaza's bar scene.  P&L is definitely the place to go out and have a good time.  That's why the restaurants on the Plaza will be fine, but they won't see the heavy bar crowds they use to on a Friday/Saturday night.  I haven't going out to the bars on the Plaza in probably 6 months, but I have gone down there for dinner.

There are probably double the amount of upscale/fine dining restaurants from Crown Center to the river compared to the Plaza. P+L would not do well relying only on fine dining or Plaza style restaurants. Remember that downtown as a whole is now competing with Westport/Plaza in terms being "the spot" in KC-- not just a couple blocks of P+L.

I walk my out of shape butt from the SW edge of the Plaza to Westport all the time.

A lot of this is just the word around town, and some of it is my own experience; so I am indicating what I have heard versus what I know.

1) FACT: Restaurants and bars on the Plaza have had a very slow past two months. Of note: Blonde has suffered quite a bit and several of the key Plaza restaurants have lost key staff to P&L, taking VIP customers with them. Some of this may be due to the very bad weather we have seen over the last few months.

2) RUMOR: Several of the restaurants have lost so many key staff members that they have had to hire inexperienced staff members and in some cases bring people in from out of state (such as the Scottsdale Kona).

3) RUMOR: Two major restaurant/bar tenants are scouting locations in OP, and one of these is considering closing doors completely.

One can easily imagine a scenario where the Plaza phases out bars/restaurants in favor of ultra-high end retail. Time will tell.

WorldTraveler wrote: One can easily imagine a scenario where the Plaza phases out bars/restaurants in favor of ultra-high end retail. Time will tell.

One can also easily imagine a scenario where the Plaza decides to go head-to-head with the P&L and the city sees which one will prosper and which one won't.


An item I have learned in life is that hot spots come and go.  They are kinda like hot teeny-bopper acts.  They are hot for two or three years and then the next generation of teeny-boppers come into age.

WorldTraveler wrote: A lot of this is just the word around town, and some of it is my own experience; so I am indicating what I have heard versus what I know.

1) FACT: Restaurants and bars on the Plaza have had a very slow past two months. Of note: Blonde has suffered quite a bit and several of the key Plaza restaurants have lost key staff to P&L, taking VIP customers with them. Some of this may be due to the very bad weather we have seen over the last few months.

2) RUMOR: Several of the restaurants have lost so many key staff members that they have had to hire inexperienced staff members and in some cases bring people in from out of state (such as the Scottsdale Kona).

3) RUMOR: Two major restaurant/bar tenants are scouting locations in OP, and one of these is considering closing doors completely.

One can easily imagine a scenario where the Plaza phases out bars/restaurants in favor of ultra-high end retail. Time will tell.

It's not just plaza places that are having trouble.  I think you are you going to see restaurants closing at a brisk pace in hot spots in the burbs as well (Indep Center area, Zona Rosa area, 119th and 35, even Village West).

Having said that, the plaza area is going to change.  I think there will always be demand for high quality restaurants in the plaza area because of the hotels, residents and well, it’s the plaza, but bring on more high end retail!

Downtown can go the way of entertainment and the plaza can concentrate on retail.  That way the entire core compliments itself and residents and tourists have reasons to visit both.

The plaza has staying power and will recover just fine.  Downtown on the other hand is still just an experiment that we all hope pans out and will have a much harder time staying strong long term.  We just don’t have enough residents and workers downtown yet, nowhere near enough.

Like I said on the first page, I hope P&L does force some Plaza changes.  If it's true that some plaza restaurants move to the burbs, I hope it's those touristy plastic food places, where most of the food is prepared elsewhere... Uno, Cheesecake, Changs, Brio, Buca d'crappo.  Highwoods has got to start putting in some places that cater to the interests of the residents, not just the tourists.  How about some Thai/SE Asian, Indian, Ethiopian, etc?  And some retail that has basic neighborhood amenities.

ignatius wrote: Like I said on the first page, I hope P&L does force some Plaza changes.  If it's true that some plaza restaurants move to the burbs, I hope it's those touristy plastic food places, where most of the food is prepared elsewhere... Uno, Cheesecake, Changs, Brio, Buca d'crappo.  Highwoods has got to start putting in some places that cater to the interests of the residents, not just the tourists.  How about some Thai/SE Asian, Indian, Ethiopian, etc?  And some retail that has basic neighborhood amenities.

If you think Brio or Changs are leaving you're smoking weed. And that there is a higher demand for Ethiopian food than those two restaurants. Are you joking?

ignatius wrote: Like I said on the first page, I hope P&L does force some Plaza changes.  If it's true that some plaza restaurants move to the burbs, I hope it's those touristy plastic food places, where most of the food is prepared elsewhere... Uno, Cheesecake, Changs, Brio, Buca d'crappo.  Highwoods has got to start putting in some places that cater to the interests of the residents, not just the tourists.  How about some Thai/SE Asian, Indian, Ethiopian, etc?  And some retail that has basic neighborhood amenities.

The Plaza is always going to be a place for the masses. If there were an ethiopian place on the Plaza, it would probably not be authentic stuff, it would be dumbed down. Ethnic restaurants belong in the Crossroads or on 39th.

Ignatius...definitely agree on amenities.

KCMax wrote: The Plaza is always going to be a place for the masses. If there were an ethiopian place on the Plaza, it would probably not be authentic stuff, it would be dumbed down. Ethnic restaurants belong in the Crossroads or on 39th.

Or Westport.  Esp. when there's both Indian and Thai right up Pennsylvania.

An item I have learned in life is that hot spots come and go.  They are kinda like hot teeny-bopper acts.  They are hot for two or three years and then the next generation of teeny-boppers come into age.

True story.  Customers (especially those of chain-y, generic kinds of places) are notoriously fickle. People tend to like new, shiny things, and then largely move on.

Was just thinking out loud.  While there will always be mass appeal restaurants on plaza, my only point was that they also need restaurants that cater to the tastes of the residents surrounding it, not only tourists.

The change the Plaza ultimately needs is to recognize there are actually people living in the hood.  Hopefully P&L will be viewed as competition and that Highwoods would realize that paying attention to neighborhood needs will lift the Plaza to other levels they haven't delved into yet.

better connectivity between westport and plaza!

Regarding the Plaza restaurants being slow the past couple of months: I had a 2nd job as a server on the Plaza for the past 6 years...it's ALWAYS slow from as soon as the post-Christmas crowds stop until about June.

Regarding the high turnover of staff: industry people go to where the money is, which either right now going to be higher end (i.e. Cap Grill, Ruth's Chris), new (P&L or someplace like JackStack Plaza) or kitschy/touristy (Cheesecake).  The fact that people are moving to a new place like P&L is less about the Plaza going downhill than it is about being a traditionally slow time of year for eating out, a crappy economy and turnover of staff in an industry with a normally high turnover rate.

Also, OP/Leawood is always going to be attracting second location or relocating restos - Bristol, Rm 39, Blue Koi, Cheesecake. I'm actually surprised a PF Changs hasn't gone out there, yet.

When Fogo de Chao(sp?) opens, there will be more staff turnover, and likely other closings (Buca? Figlio?).  And, unfortunately, Highwoods isn't interested in catering to neighborhood tastes...they're about the dollars from tourists and people coming to 'experience the Plaza.'  If they did, they'd fight for a new grocery store.

kcjak wrote: Regarding the Plaza restaurants being slow the past couple of months: I had a 2nd job as a server on the Plaza for the past 6 years...it's ALWAYS slow from as soon as the post-Christmas crowds stop until about June.

Regarding the high turnover of staff: industry people go to where the money is, which either right now going to be higher end (i.e. Cap Grill, Ruth's Chris), new (P&L or someplace like JackStack Plaza) or kitschy/touristy (Cheesecake).  The fact that people are moving to a new place like P&L is less about the Plaza going downhill than it is about being a traditionally slow time of year for eating out, a crappy economy and turnover of staff in an industry with a normally high turnover rate.

Also, OP/Leawood is always going to be attracting second location or relocating restos - Bristol, Rm 39, Blue Koi, Cheesecake. I'm actually surprised a PF Changs hasn't gone out there, yet.

That makes sense.

When Fogo de Chao(sp?) opens, there will be more staff turnover, and likely other closings (Buca? Figlio?).  And, unfortunately, Highwoods isn't interested in catering to neighborhood tastes...they're about the dollars from tourists and people coming to 'experience the Plaza.'  If they did, they'd fight for a new grocery store.

It's very true...I would imagine that the tourists/visitors, not the residents, keep the Plaza businesses open.  I know the only businesses I patronize with anything resembling frequency are Barnes & Noble, Panera, and at times the Cinemark. Occasionally Latte Land.

The Plaza is probably hurting b/c the entire economy is hurting.  With job losses, high inflation and rising gas prices too, people are totally cutting back on discretionary spending.  Report out today said that cloting stores are getting killed right now.


The Plaza is the ULTIMATE spot for discretionary spending, eh?

DaveKCMO wrote: better connectivity between westport and plaza!

No doubt...they ought to run a free trolly in nice weather down Nichols, say from Nichols and Pennsylvania on the Plaza to Westport and Pennsylvania.

How much could that cost?  I suppose you'd need to convince Highwoods that the areas could feed off each other rather than compete.

Jess wrote: It's very true...I would imagine that the tourists/visitors, not the residents, keep the Plaza businesses open.  I know the only businesses I patronize with anything resembling frequency are Barnes & Noble, Panera, and at times the Cinemark. Occasionally Latte Land.

I live between Plaza/Westport and spend much more money/time in Westport and over on 50th/Main.  I actually spend more time in W39th and downtown area than the Plaza.  If Highwoods catered to residents, they'd get our business. 

ignatius wrote: I live between Plaza/Westport and spend much more money/time in Westport and over on 50th/Main.  I actually spend more time in W39th and downtown area than the Plaza.  If Highwoods catered to residents, they'd get our business. 

I agree w/you, Ignatius - I just moved from the Plaza to 39th and usually only go to the Plaza now except for movies.  I miss it in many aspects, but most people in the River/Crown/Plaza area tend to frequent places in their immediate surroundings IMO.  I wish that St Lukes were situated a little differently so that blocks of shops, restaurants, cafes and residences could create a link between the Plaza and Westport.  An area like the CWE in St Louis would be incredible.