New high end apartment tower and Aloft hotel announced for West Plaza

[Highlander]

This is a great project that will add a ton of density to the plaza area.  Awesome developers, great architects and a high quality development that I believe won't be asking for a tif, only chapter 353 (which already exists for this land).

This project will also actually get done so we don't have to worry about tearing down something and having it sit vacant for decades.

I think we need to get over the retail fetish.  Downtown has retail everywhere and most of it is vacant or underused.  There have been plenty mixed use projects in the plaza area to include ground level retail.  West Edge, Plaza Colonnade etc.

I'm not trying to be an ass here, but for once, can we say.  Nice job, this will be a great project!

Now, if we could get something like this to go up east of the Sprint Center, I would just crap my pants.

Retail is a short stroll down the street at the Plaza.  If we had retail at street level on every block in the midtown, we would rapidly be overbuilt.  Save it for the retail areas, there's a place in the world for residential only and you'll find that many streets in very dense areas of European cities have no business space at street level either. 

[FangKC]

Instead of putting retail within residential neighborhoods like that, a better idea would be to create a retail and mass transit corridor along Main Street from 27th to 45th streets. The retail would be then along the periphery of denser residential neighborhoods, but still convenient.  Not everyone wants retail right in their residential neighborhood.  Some people prefer the quiet and don't want people sitting outside or under their windows at sidewalk cafes laughing and drinking lattes, or loudly calling friends on cellphones, at 11 pm at night.  Look how people living around Westport already bitch about the nightclubs.  Even in NYC most of the retail and commercial is concentrated along major avenues and not the sidestreets.  The sidestreets is where one finds apartments and townhouses.

Use retail and housing to create a pedestrian and mass transit corridor

Retail and commercial needs to be along major thoroughfares so that areas along the light rail system, and bus routes, will be dense enough to pull in state and federal dollars.  Denser cities get priority with the limited transportation funding.  We should be concentrating our development and retail there.

Using tax incentives to create a transportation redevelopment zone

If I were mayor, I'd call for a special transit redevelopment district along Main all the way from the River Market to about 54th Street. Say for 25 years.  The entire strip would have top priority for consideration of TIF and MODESA funding.  The goal would be to concentrate new retail and high-rise housing along Main to build up the corridor in density.  I'd trot out my tax policy to only tax buildings constructed on surface lots up to the 4th floor to encourage developers to build up along that route.  The tax savings could then be spread among the residents on all floors per sq. foot.  A 20-story building would have 16 tax-abated floors.  All residents would still pay some taxes, but much less than regularly. The City and County would still collect more taxes than before when it was a surface lot. 

Tax policy would be set up to protect historic buildings and make it attractive to renovate instead of demolish

To protect existing buildings, and historic properties, there would be rules in place that would emphasize building on vacant lots.  Buildings older than 25 years on lots would not be eligible for the tax benefit used to build new, unless the city council and landmarks commission both approved a demolition plan.  The City would also work with developers to landmark older buildings and help them get historic tax credits in place to do renovations on older buildings.  Some percentage of TIF awards in the district would be specifically marked for renovation of historic buildings along with historic tax credits so there would be less incentive to tear them down.  In some cases, the City would attempt to buy historic properties just for the purpose of landmarking them to make them eligible for historic tax credits, and package these buildings to developers.  This would protect buildings like those along Main near Westport Road and 39th Street.

All historic buildings designated by the Landmarks Commission would automatically be eligible for 25-year tax abatements, and their parcels would be exempt from any tax benefits if the building is demolished.  The goal of this tax plan is not to destroy existing buildings along Main, but to build new ones on vacant parcels and parking lots.  No demolished building would be eligible for TIF unless the Landmarks Commission and City Council both approved the demolition.

The other tax policy I'd float is to create a special tax district where existing and new retail and commercial enterprises would  pay half the normal sales tax rate as in the rest of the City.  I'd limit it to new businesses, but I'm afraid existing businesses might say it would be an unfair advantage.  The Crossroads Coffee Shop on Main wouldn't be able to compete with a new Latteland that opened down the street otherwise.

On Sundays, no sales taxes would be collected on business activity within three blocks of Main on businesses that had been there less than five years.  This would give start-up, small businesses a little help getting established.   It would also encourage developers and retail to build high density projects along Main within the transportation zone.  After five years, the tax holiday would expire.  Rules would be in place where business operators wouldn't be able to close one storefront, and reopen the same business down the street.  They could however open a new concept, and get tax holiday on the new business, but only if their former business remained open too for the first two years of the second business.  That way, you could open one restaurant, and after five years, open a second (with the tax benefits) if the first restaurant remained open for two years after the second opened.  If not, then the second business would be seen as a relocation.   Of course, a governing board made up of city officials, and other adjacent retailers, would decide these on a case by case basis.  Exemptions would be available in cases where the original business moved within the first five years to expand their space by at least 25 percent for example in sales or footage.

Goals of the special tax district

The purpose of this tax policy would be to encourage a mass transit corridor and build enough density to create enough ridership to justify federal and state transporation funding, and to keep the light rail and bus system healthy.

Creating a  pedestrian and transit zone

The ideal situation would be a consistent retail strip down Main where one could take a pleasant walk from downtown to the Plaza without encountering long stretches of parking lots.  At any point, one could get on a bus or tram, or not.  It may sound like a lot of walking, but I used to walk 40 blocks with no  problem when I lived in NYC.  I had calves of steel then.

[ignatius]

On the retail front, as one who lives between Plaza/Westport, the Plaza does lack real 'neighborhood' retail.  There's some but nothing like a drugstore or services that cater to residents.  You can't even buy a gallon of milk on the Plaza anymore.  But this project isn't the right location.  W end of the plaza needs some along Madison or the old Meiners spot, N end there is a lot near the cutesy commerce bank that could have neighborhood retail.  E end could be near Winsteads or where the Holiday Inn might be replaced.  S end has Osco/CVS and the 50th/main strip, the only 'real' neighborhood retail around the plaza.

But I do agree any off-plaza retail won't work unless it serves the residents.  Touristy retail won't work.

[FangKC]

Another spot would be that V-shaped parcel between Madison, Roanoke and W. 47th Street. Imagine if there were a combination grocery/drug store there.  There is enough of a grade there to have retail at street-level, basement parking accessible from Roanoke, and 2nd-floor parking accessible from Madison with commercial and residential in a tower on top.

It would be a convenient location for Plaza residents and still close enough for visitors staying in hotels on the Plaza to use it as well.

[FangKC]

Here's the site we are talking about, the Colonial Apartments, for the condo/ALoft Hotel buildings at W. 46th and Jefferson.

[chrizow]

no big loss there.  tear em down!!!  by contrast, the buildings on cleaver that could be torn down would be a big loss imo.

[FangKC]

It seems to me that they could retain the apartment buildings there now though, and still build a below-grade parking lot where the surface lot is, and the hotel and condo tower on top of where the garage would go.

I find it incredible that people think it's not a loss to tear down perfectly good buildings, with people living in them now. Especially when the planned project  (a condo building, hotel, and an underground garage) could easily be built on the existing vacant portion of the parcel, and still retain the original apartment buildings.  Doing that would actually make the parcel denser than under the present plan.

That's what I'd do if I owned the property.  No teardown. New buildings adapt to the present site. Retain present dwellings, and build more.

[ComandanteCero]

I don't know, from an aesthetic point of view, replacing them makes too much sense to me.

[FangKC]

I've prepared a graphic to show how one would build the new buildings, and retain the old ones.  Certainly, the old buildings may not be aesthetically-pleasing to some, but they could get a makeover and be made more attractive.

First, one would build a subterranean garage under the present parking lot, and two or three levels above ground, but over a smaller footprint so as to retain some effect of a courtyard between the buildings.  Then the condos and hotel would go on top of the garage with an entryway at street level.







This way, one could have the new buildings and still retain the old for affordable housing.  I've reconsidered and believe there is room for some retail along the Madison frontage.  It's indicated in blue.

[GRID]

Tear it all down and start over.  We can apply Fangs ideas to the project over on Cleaver!

[eliphar17]

I hope you don't mind me linking this GRID... maybe you can link it more appropriately yourself.

[DaveKCMO]

you can sign up for aloft info on the starwood website: http://www.starwoodhotels.com/alofthotels/index.html

[ShowMeKC]

Something I am kind of amazed at, if it is 9 floors and 10 floors from the middle of the buildings to the sidewalk, then the 9 floor building will end up looking taller than the 10 floor building.

[GRID]

I hope you don't mind me linking this GRID... maybe you can link it more appropriately yourself.

I'm fine with it eliphar17, it just shows how that property is in no way developed at the density it should be for that location.  It's mostly grass and parking lots.

Tear it down.

[GRID]

Devin, does google have the plaza in 3D now, or did you draw all of that?

[ShowMeKC]

I drew it... I have most of the taller buildings done. But now that I'm in college, my whole GoogleEarth model/building making has ground to a halt.

[rxlexi]

while I find this to be a great project, it is worth noting that there are two large completely UNdeveloped (as opposed to underdeveloped) tracts of land near this site.  One, behind Lockton tower, I thought was slated by Highwoods for a hotel at 'some point', and the other, the wedge of land between Madison and Roanoke Parkway, is a huge and prominent space that I can't believe continues to just sit there waiting for someone to develop it. 

  The point being is that I'm not terribly concerned about losing the Colonial Court apts, I agree that they're relatively ugly and low density.  But I dislike the precedent that it sets, especially with the east plaza (cleaver/southmoreland) proposal coming up at some point, which I am absolutely, totally against.  There is so much underused space or vacant land in the core, that I'd like to see more real infill versus continual tear downs.  In this case, I agree that the payoff seems completely worth it, but in others I'm not so sure, and I worry that to the general public one old apt. building/complex is the same as any another one.  And really, when is the Madison/Roanoke triangle gonna reach it's potential as a sweet site for just about anything?

[zonk]

Colonial Court = armpit.....Tear those dumpy, fleabag, unmaintained, slum-lord owned pieces of crap down.  They are worthless....and deserve and "higher & better" use.

[ignatius]

While some buildings can be in poor shape or worse, many of these could be restored to its full glory, like Parklane Apts to a great boutique hotel.  The Colonial Court was crap to begin with, cheap shoddy construction in its day as well.  Yes, these are worth tearing down for a better use.  I'd only complain if they were torn down for an empty lot.

[FangKC]

Like I stated earlier, the Roanoke/Madison Triangle would be a great location for a mixed use building with a drug store. It would be a high visibility location with a lot of car traffic and walkable to a lot of adjacent apartments.