Immigrant influences and the positives and negatives of cultural diversity

[KCTigerFan]

The difference is those immigrants such as the Germans you spoke of came here legally and became US citizens, learned English, and were entitled to vote. Our newest immigrants aren't doing any of that and aren't entitled to vote. Its common sense really. I'm for absolute amnesty. But until they learn English and receive their citizenship papers they should not be voting in our elections. We could literally have Chinese, Russian, or Al Qaida operatives voting in our elections.

There are several things I disagree with you on in this post, but the biggest is the voting.  Hell, the vast majority of legal American citizens don't bother to vote.  Do you really think Al Qaeda is going to overthrow our government by voting in the Paducah School Board elections?  

[Maitre D]

Can we start a petition to retroactively deport all of my relatives?  Granted they came here in late 1700's and early 1800's, but my Irish, Swedish and German ancestors were filthy people who lived in run down neighborhoods, stuck with others of their kind, took jobs from hard working Americans and ate gross food.  I hear that my great great great grandparents didn't even bother to learn English!  They spoke German their whole lives, even in our country!  Let's send them all back!!!

When I read things like I this, I realize how broken our education system is.

[chrizow]

When I read things like I this, I realize how broken our education system is.

yes, it's a shame we didn't receive the education you have.  we could all have the correct views on controversial issues! 

[Maitre D]

yes, it's a shame we didn't receive the education you have.  we could all have the correct views on controversial issues! 

Silly response.

There are perfectly good reasons to support or oppose Immigration.  The reason he gave, is not one.  The world has changed a wee bit since 1880.....whether you want to believe it or not.

[KCTigerFan]

When I read things like I this, I realize how broken our education system is.

Obviously my degrees are worthless and the system is broken because I don't agree with you.  Immigration is a complicated issue and there is no clear black and white.  The sooner people realize that and stop calling immigrants dirty mexicans and worthless, the better.  My ancestors were good and bad.  Some contributed to this country, some didn't.  I do not proclaim to be so arrogant to think that I or any of my immigrant ancestors are any better or were seeking anything different than the iimmigrants of today.  Also, I guarantee you if Ireland shared a common border with the US, we would have had millions more potato eating Irishmen illegally in our country.  Also, the policies of our country have always looked much more favorably to white, european immigrants than those of other races and from other countries.    

[chrizow]

the world has changed, but what hasn't changed is most of the same paranoid anti-immigrant rhetoric.  1780, 1880, 1910s, 1970s, 2000s...the only thing that changes is the origins of the immigrants. 

[FangKC]

The thing about diversity is that the genie is already out of the bottle. The world is diversifying at such a rate that there is no stopping it at this point.

Having lived in one of the most ethnically-diverse cities in the world, New York, I can state without hesitation that living among diversity is better than not.  It made me into a much better person.

I say Kansas City needs more diversity, and more immigrants.  Bring in some more Koreans. They run some of the best corner markets in NYC.  They work harder than most Americans could imagine working.

If we are going English-only, then we should definitely change the name of the city and neighboring state to something more English, since Canses was the French name for the Kaw Indians.  Maybe we should have chosen Possumtrot afterall.

We need to start changing some street names as well. Nix the Paseo, Chouteau Bridge and Trafficway, and Guinotte Avenue.

I wonder if the French thought the same thing when the English-speaking immigrants started coming to Chez les Canses.

Keep in mind that three of Missouri's major cities were founded as French-speaking settlements: St. Louis, Kansas City, and St. Joseph. Had Napoleon not needed funds for fighting a war, we would probably be speaking French now.

When the Missouri was moving towards statehood, the Missouri Constitution was printed in French for distribution in Kansas City.

The Ozarks is derived from the French for "mountains of the arcs."  Gotta change that I suppose.

http://www.kclibrary.org/localhistory/m ... aID=105381

Missouri gets its name from a tribe of Sioux Indians of the state called the Missouris. The word "Missouri" often has been construed to mean "muddy water" but the Smithsonian Institution Bureau of American Ethnology has stated it means "town of the large canoes," and authorities have said the Indian syllables from which the word comes mean "wooden canoe people" or "he of the big canoe."

http://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/history/history.asp

I don't think there is any worry about English loosing its' primacy as the national language.  Despite what the English-only crowd would lead one to believe, many places do fine with several languages.

Many languages are spoken in New York City, and it functions quite well.

Switzerland has existed for a long time with four primary languages spoken there (German, French, Italian, Rumantsch). When I traveled there, depending on where I was, I issued greetings in either German, French, or English. But everyone spoke English well, so after greeting, I asked to speak English. They were happy to comply. I happened to think it was fun.

Many Swiss youth speak English better than some Americans, and are able to form sentences and thoughts in a manner that would make President Bush appear to be speaking gibberish.  The fact that they speak several languages has not seemed to cause their country to fall apart at the seems.  The Swiss Confederation has existed for more than twice as long as the United States.

[Maitre D]

Also, the policies of our country have always looked much more favorably to white, european immigrants than those of other races and from other countries.    

Therrrrrrre we go.   Now, your motivations are starting to become quite clear to me.....

[Maitre D]

Damn me for speaking with historical accuracy.   :shock:

I would probably guess you are accurate.  However, since the country was 90% white & european for 300 years, I'm failing to see your argument here.

[KCTigerFan]

Therrrrrrre we go.   Now, your motivations are starting to become quite clear to me.....

Damn me for speaking with historical accuracy. 

[bbqboy]

I would probably guess you are accurate.  However, since the country was 90% white & european for 300 years, I'm failing to see your argument here.

hello Mr. Kettle, Mr. Pot calling......

[FangKC]

It is not really true that countries can't exist without one primary language.  Yes, it's common for business and governance to be conducted in one official language, but that fact that the majority of the population speaks only one language doesn't seem to affect the stability of some countries.

The Soviet Union didn't come apart based on language problems.  China seems to have remained somewhat intact for a long time despite the fact its' population peaks several languages.

In China, there are 8 primary languages spoken: Mandarin, Wu, Yue (Cantonese), Jinyu, Min Nan, Xiang, Hakka, and Gan.

In India, there are 17 primary languages spoken: English, Hindi, Bengali, Telugu, Marathi, Tamil, Urdu, Gujarati, Malayalam, Kannada,  Oriya, Western Panjabi, Eastern Panjabi, Bhojpuri,  Maithili,  Awadhi, and Sindhi.

I think many Americans fear of other languages being used here is because there is no requirement among many of our schools to learn a second language like in other countries.  If America is not strong enough to be a multi-lingual society, then there is something terribly wrong.   I sometimes think all language politics is primarily a fear-based response.  If Americans had to learn a second language, there would be much less fear of other languages being used here.

As with almost all fears, the fear itself is often worse than the thing-feared.  I have lived much of my life by an adage my grandmother espoused:  You must do overcome your fear because it limits you.

[KCTigerFan]

I would probably guess you are accurate.  However, since the country was 90% white & european for 300 years, I'm failing to see your argument here.

Ok, let me see if I can sum up the argument...

Immigrants that look and act kind of like the majority of American citizens =  Come on in, welcome!
Immigrants that have brown/yellow skin, different cultural backgrounds = Dirty immigrants stealing OUR jobs.  Get them out they are criminals.

You are right that times have changed.  We used to hate Catholics, Jews, Pols...  Granted many still do, but most of the blame has now shifted to Mexicans.  All would be well if we got the 12MM Mexicans out.    

[Maitre D]

the world has changed, but what hasn't changed is most of the same paranoid anti-immigrant rhetoric.  1780, 1880, 1910s, 1970s, 2000s...the only thing that changes is the origins of the immigrants. 

Weak.

If that is all you can compare 2007 to 1880 with, you're resting on a weak argument.   Many Americans have many different reasons for opposing immigration.   And I'd guess less than 10% of them involve the old "But they don't look like me!" argument you're falsely ascribing to them.

Hopefully, you can counter their actual arguments.  Not conjured strawmen.

[chrizow]

Hopefully, you can counter their actual arguments. 

provide.

and by the way i'm not simply ascribing "they dont' look like me" arguments to anti-immigrant folks..i'm also ascribing classic arguments like:

* immigrants are taking our jobs!
* immigrants are inundating our schools!
* immigrants bring disease and crime!
* immigrants don't assimilate into our culture, thus diluting "american culture"
* immigrants are a "drain" on society!

[KCMax]

the world has changed, but what hasn't changed is most of the same paranoid anti-immigrant rhetoric.  1780, 1880, 1910s, 1970s, 2000s...the only thing that changes is the origins of the immigrants. 

Exactly right. The arguments used now against Mexican immigrants are many of the same that were used against Italian, German, Irish and Eastern European immigrants. The first generation of all of those immigrant classes didn't speak English either. Business in the Little Italy portions of San Francisco and New York were all conducted in Italian. There are towns in Iowa, Missouri, Ohio and Pennsylvania were everything was done in German.

But, much like the Mexican immigrant population, the second generation, and all succeeding generations assimilate and learn English. Its inevitable. Kids want to fit in.

[Gretz]

The difference is those immigrants such as the Germans you spoke of came here legally and became US citizens, learned English, and were entitled to vote. Our newest immigrants aren't doing any of that and aren't entitled to vote. Its common sense really. I'm for absolute amnesty. But until they learn English and receive their citizenship papers they should not be voting in our elections. We could literally have Chinese, Russian, or Al Qaida operatives voting in our elections.

They only came here legally because we let everyone in back then.  They would've come anyway for the same reasons even if it weren't legal.  And no, they didn't learn English as I was insinuating in my post.  It took three-four generations, 75 years and the second world war with all its political enmity for German culture before English really became the default language of communication in my community.  My grandfathers generation was stil by-lingual, and his father a Germanophone with marginal English comprehension as were most of his contemporaries.  Half the stories and humorous anecdotes about old-timers in the community still revolve around linguistic mis-understanding and dual meanings.  Cultural and linguistic integration takes generations.
   Besides, what makes you think our current immigrants aren't learning English.  I have known many foreigners in my short adult life, working in restaurants, chatting up cabbies etc. and they have all spoken English on some level.  Learning a language is difficult especially for a mono-lingual adult.  Just because someone makes errors in speaking or doesn't catch a word sometimes doesn't mean they don't speak a language at a high-level.  It takes years to learn a second language and is a process that continues until death.  To expect someone to "learn English" before they come here is ludicrous and nearly impossible for all but the brightest, youngest people with access to educational materials.  Not everyone is good at language learning, and you can't really learn a language until you have a lot of exposure to it.  I lived in Africa for three years and was completely cut off from English most of the time.  I'm also bright, young, and had lots of other experience in language learning with my minor in linguistics, yet I still "talked funny" and missed a good 10% of stuff said to me in the local African language when I left.  Very few adults ever achieve "native indistinguishability" in a second language, and even older children fairly often don't.  This broad platitude that immigrants "don't speak english" is incorrect; most do at an intermediate level or far better, especially if they have been here for more than a year or two.  Just because you can detect an accent or a miss-conjugation or they can't always understand an extreme country or inner-city accent doesn't mean they don't speak the language.  Slow down, say something a different way, and use gestures if someone can't understand you.  It takes generations for a groups native language to be completely replaced; and who's to say that's even desirable?

   I don't think it is at all.  I'm always shocked at the level of Xenophobia displayed by my countrymen; often times even fairly educated people.  Immigrant communities and their various imported cultures to me are a point of interest and fascination.  I enjoy walking around areas where I hear people speaking other languages and observing peoples different than myself.  I completely fail to understand this instinct so many have to "make them us" or "send them back," or even why people think of them as "them."  They are just people, like you and me.  Who can blame them for trying to better their circumstances and those of their families by coming here? Were your positions reversed you would do the same.  If you don't like people different from youreself stay away from them, but don't try to dictate to them how they should live their lives.  The legality issue is something that needs to be addressed, I agree (with amnesty in my opinion) but I don't see that an imigrant group's chances of becoming legal should be based on standards of language ability or integration into white, middle-class society.

[FangKC]

The fact that a national language is mandated does not always lead to unity or pre-eminance of the political form.  The English colonized numerous places and attempted to impose English as the primary language, yet lost control of them: United States of America; India; Australia; Canada; assorted African nations.  The problem wasn't language or ethnic-diversity, it was political.  The same is true of French, Spanish, Portuguese, and Dutch colonies around the world.

Interesting fact not necessarily related to this argument.  More people speak Portuguese in the nations of Brazil and Angola than in Portugal (170,406 (Brazil), 13,134 (Angola), vs. 10,016 million (Portugal).
 
Language distribution in Switzerland

German is by far the most widely spoken language in Switzerland: 17 of the 26 cantons are monolingual in German.

French is spoken in the western part of the country, the "Suisse Romande." Four cantons are French-speaking: Geneva, Jura, Neuchâtel and Vaud. Three cantons are bilingual: in Bern, Fribourg and Valais both French and German are spoken.

Italian is spoken in Ticino and 4 southern valleys of Canton Graubünden.

Rumantsch is spoken only in the trilingual canton of Graubünden. The other two languages spoken there are German and Italian. Rumantsch, like Italian and French, is a language with Latin roots. It is spoken by just 0.5% of the total Swiss population.

The many foreigners resident in Switzerland have brought with them their own languages, which taken as a whole now outnumber both Rumantsch and Italian. The 2000 census showed that speakers of Serbian/Croatian were the largest foreign language group, with 1.4% of the population. English was the main language for 1%.

The same places sometimes have very different names in different languages. Sign at a funicular station in the bilingual town of Biel/Bienne in canton Bern (German above, French below).

Language rights are enshrined in the Swiss constitution. German, French, Italian and Rhaeto-Rumantsch all have the status of national languages, but only the first three are official languages. Nevertheless, Rumantsch is used in official communications with Rumantsch speakers, who in turn have the right to use their native language in addressing the central authorities.

The constitution also contains provisions to enable the federal authorities to help Ticino and Graubünden support Italian and Rumantsch respectively.

Foreigners often assume that the fact that there are four national languages in Switzerland means that every Swiss speaks four languages, or at least three. However, the reality is very different.

Swiss linguistic profiency and English

The Swiss can certainly be proud of their linguistic proficiency and many understand the other languages of their fellow countrymen very well. However, proficiency in the national languages is decreasing in favour of English. Quadrilingual Switzerland is apparently becoming a two-and-a-half-language Switzerland. Many people speak their mother tongue and English and understand a second national language.

Each canton makes its own decision about which language will be taught when. In German-speaking Switzerland children have traditionally started French from the age of 9, while French speakers have started German at the same age. In Ticino and the Rumantsch-speaking areas, both French and German are learned during compulsory schooling. Ticino decided in 2002 to make English a compulsory subject, alongside French and German. To lighten the load, children will be able to drop French when they start English in the 8th year.

Zürich's education minister provoked a national debate in 2000 by announcing that his canton intended to make English the first foreign language, rather than French. Supporters of the move point out that English is more useful in the world. They add that children and parents are in favour and that since motivation is an important ingredient in language learning, pupils are likely to learn English more successfully than they do French.

Opponents see the decision as a threat to the unity of Switzerland, and fear that French and Italian speakers will be put at a disadvantage because they will still need a good standard of German to rise in their careers within Switzerland.

---

Not only do they speak several languages in Switzerland, there are also variations of dialect among each.

Standard languages and dialects

Switzerland's four languages are by no means fully homogeneous, but instead display a whole host of variations.

German

The language spoken in German-speaking Switzerland is quite different from standard German - called High German. The German Swiss speak Swiss German, often called "Mundart" - which itself is broken up into numerous local dialects. These are different enough to make it possible to determine where a speaker comes from, but generally not so different as to be incomprehensible to other Swiss German speakers. The dialects which give the most difficulty are those spoken in some of the remote valleys in the southern canton of Valais, but with a bit of effort from both sides even these can be understood by speakers of other Swiss German dialects.

A poll carried out in 2002 among German and French speaking Swiss asked them to name the Swiss German dialect they preferred. Bernese came top with 27%; the Valais dialect got 20%, while Zürich got only 10% of the votes.

In Switzerland, High German is first and foremost a written language, which Swiss German children have to learn in school. All lessons are taught in it, and it is the language of newspapers and magazines and most books. It is also widely used in the media.

At the same time, High German, the standard language of the entire German speaking world, also contains regional variations, particularly in vocabulary. (Native English speakers are faced with a similar situation, where words and expressions used in one country or region are unknown in the others.) German-speaking Swiss are sometimes surprised to find that even when they speak High German some of the words they use are not understood by Germans or Austrians.

People who have learnt only High German find Swiss German very hard to understand. This is not merely a matter of accent: the grammar and vocabulary are also different. This poses a problem within Switzerland: French and Italian speakers who learn German at school are taught the standard language, and find they still cannot communicate with their compatriots. Teachers in the German part of Switzerland complain that many pupils find it difficult to master standard German, and that their studies suffer as a result.

French

In French-speaking Switzerland, the local patois have largely died out, although efforts are being made both to study them and to keep them alive. The patois exist in a range of local variations, which are sometimes mutually almost unintelligible. These patois are not dialects of French but of the structurally separate language Franco-Provençal. Dialects of Franco-Provençal are (or were) also spoken in parts of eastern France and northern Italy.

Nowadays French-speaking Swiss write and speak the same French as the French themselves, although some regional words and expressions have survived, and some specifically Swiss words have appeared reflecting Swiss realities.

Italian

In Italian-speaking Switzerland, however, dialects are part of the citizens' linguistic repertoire. The standard language is used in writing and in public, while the dialect is mainly reserved for the private sphere.

Rumantsch

Although Rumantsch is only spoken by very few Swiss, it has five distinct forms, known as "idioms", each with its own written tradition - and each with several dialects. An artificial standard language, "Rumantsch Grischun", was created in 1982, as a compromise between the existing idioms. It is used mainly for administrative purposes. However, in the media and for literary works, most speakers prefer to use their own idiom.

In 2001 a cantonal referendum in Graubünden approved Rumantsch Grischun as the form to be used in official election material and the legal code. The standard language made another gain in 2005, when Microsoft announced that it was to be added to its range of desktop languages.
The interests of the language as a whole are overseen by the umbrella organisation, the Lia Rumantscha.

[FangKC]

The most widely-spoken languages in the world:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/languages2.html

Rank, Countries  language, population (in millions),

1. Chinese, Mandarin, 1,120 million

Spoken in: Brunei, Cambodia, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mongolia, Philippines, Singapore, S. Africa, Taiwan, Thailand

2. English, 480 million

Australia, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Canada, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Fiji, The Gambia, Guyana, India, Ireland, Israel, Lesotho, Liberia, Malaysia, Micronesia, Namibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Palau, Papua New Guinea, Philippines, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somalia, S. Africa, Suriname, Swaziland, Tonga, U.K., U.S., Vanuatu, Zimbabwe, many Caribbean states

3. Spanish, 332 million

Algeria, Andorra, Argentina, Belize, Benin, Bolivia, Chad, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominican Rep., Ecuador, El Salvador, Eq. Guinea, Guatemala, Honduras, Ivory Coast, Madagascar, Mali, Mexico, Morocco, Nicaragua, Niger, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Spain, Togo, Tunisia, United States, Uruguay, Venezuela. 332

4. Arabic, 235 million

Egypt, Sudan, Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Lybia, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Yemen, United Arab Emirates (UAE), Oman, Iraq, Lebanon

5. Bengali, 189 million

Bangladesh, India, Singapore

6. Hindi, 182 million

India, Nepal, Singapore, S. Africa, Uganda

7. Russian, 180 million

Belarus, China, Estonia, Georgia, Israel, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Mongolia, Russia, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, U.S., Uzbekistan

8. Portuguese, 170 million  (only about 10 million of these speakers live in Portugal)

Angola, Brazil, Cape Verde, France, Guinea-Bissau, Mozambique, Portugal, São Tomé and Príncipe

9. Japanese, 125 million

Japan, Singapore, Taiwan

10. German, 98 million

Austria, Belgium, Bolivia, Czech Rep., Denmark, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Paraguay, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Switzerland

11. Chinese, Wu,  77.2 million

China

12. Javanese, 75.5 million

Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore

13. Korean, 75 million

China, Japan, N. Korea, S. Korea, Singapore, Thailand

14. French, 72 million

Algeria, Andorra, Belgium, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada, Chad, Comoros, Congo, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Djibouti, France, Gabon, Guinea, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Laos, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Monaco, Morocco, Niger, Rwanda, Senegal, Seychelles, Switzerland, Togo, Tunisia, Vanuatu, Vietnam

15. Turkish, 69 million

Bulgaria, Cyprus, Greece, Macedonia, Romania, Turkey, Uzbekistan

16. Vietnamese, 67.7 million

China, Vietnam

17. Telugu,   66.4 million

India, Singapore

18. Chinese, Yue (Cantonese), 66 million

Brunei, China, Costa Rica, Indonesia, Malaysia, Panama, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam

19. Marathi, 64.8 million

India

20. Tamil, 63.1 million

India, Malaysia, Mauritius, Singapore, S. Africa, Sri Lanka

21. Italian Croatia, 59 million

Eritrea, France, Italy, San Marino, Slovenia, Switzerland

22. Urdu, 58 million

Afghanistan, India, Mauritius, Pakistan, S. Africa, Thailand

23. Chinese, Min Nan, 49 million

Brunei, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand 

24. Chinese, Jinyu, 45 million

China

25. Gujarati, 44 million

India, Kenya, Pakistan, Singapore, S. Africa, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Zimbabwe 44

26. Polish, 44 million

Czech Rep., Germany, Israel, Poland, Romania, Slovakia

27. Ukrainian, 41 million

Poland, Slovakia, Ukraine

28. Persian, 37.3 million

Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Oman, Qatar, Tajikistan, U A Emirates

29. Chinese, Xiang, 36 million

China

30. Malayalam, 34 million

India, Singapore 

31. Chinese, Hakka, 34 million

Brunei, China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Panama, Singapore, Suriname, Taiwan, Thailand 

32. Kannada, 33.7 million

India

33. Oriya, 31 million

India

34. Panjabi (Western), 30 million

India, Pakistan

35. Sunda, 27 million

Indonesia 

35. Panjabi (Eastern), 26 million

India, Kenya, Singapore

36. Romanian, 26 million

Hungary, Israel, Moldova, Romania, Serbia and Montenegro, Ukraine

37. Bhojpuri, 25 million

India, Mauritius, Nepal 

38. Azerbaijani, 24.4 million

South Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey

40. Maithili, 24.3 million

India, Nepal

41. Hausa Benin, 24.2 million

Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Ghana, Niger, Nigeria, Sudan, Togo

43. Burmese Bangladesh, 22 million

Myanmar (formerly Burma)

44. Serbo-Croatian, 21 million

Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Serbia and Montenegro, Slovenia

45. Chinese, Gan, 20.6 million

China

46. Awadhi India, 20.5 million

Nepal

47. Thai Singapore, 20 million

Thailand

48. Dutch, 20 million

Belgium, France, Netherlands, Suriname

49. Yoruba Benin, 20 million

Nigeria

50. Sindhi, 19.7 million

Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Singapore

1. Many of the languages listed are technically dialects, not separate languages. They are listed separately because they differ from each other enough to be mutually unintelligible.

2. The countries listed under Spanish, English, Portuguese, French, and Serbo-Croatian do not include those in which less than 1% of the population speaks the language as a first language.

3. The population figures refer to first language speakers in all countries and are general estimates.

4. Serbo-Croatian is now known variously as Serbian, Croatian, or Bosnian, depending on the speaker's ethnic or political affiliation.

Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, Barbara F. Grimes, Editor. © 1996, Summer Institute of Linguistics, Inc. Includes corrections made by:

Copyright © 2000 - 2005 Photius Coutsoukis (All rights reserved).

[Maitre D]

Bad choice of words. You are of course free to not participate in society if that's your wish, I just meant that it is one's responsibility to participate in society if one doesn't want to feel excluded. Neither society in general, nor immigrant business owners in particular, have any responsibility to research what makes Joe Sixpack feel "included"--it's all on Joe, I'm saying.

Oh, Ok.  I would agree very strongly with that ^^^^.