KCRag Forum

nice quick edit with different perspective. When I see stuff like this I wonder "why didn't they think of that?" I assume they did but decided against it? I only mention it as it as to be obvious to professional designer & architects that something like that overall would be better. I know there are 100's of reasons why you don't and you do. Just seems weird some many "arm chair architects" can enhance and or provide better designs on a chat board than what we get in reality. Also I know some of you are architects & engineers so props to your skills

However, end of the day, I'm waaay happier with what they came back with than what was proposed. it does appear they listened and took some feedback and put it do good use.

From Colison's article "but the plan’s scale was reduced at the request of Historic KC."

Thus the shorter building.

I've modified and cleaned up with NW even taller. It could probably be as tall or even taller than P&L as it wouldn't be too imposing with the distance. SW corner dropped some to visually terrace up to P&L. If any other ideas I'll try to render.

My mods...


Original...

Redesign is great. Perfect neighbor to P&L

Garage entrances seem minimal as well. This would be a good opportunity to use raised driveway entrances to keep the sidewalk level across driveways--helps slow cars, emphasizes pedestrian priority, etc. A real small thing that can have a nice impact for the pedestrian environment.

This edit clears up and hesitation I may have had over the building's imposition on P&L. Let this one go ahead and go ahead quick. Will be a great addition to DT and hopefully will send a good signal to other potential highrise devevelopers.

shinatoo wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:52 am From Colison's article "but the plan’s scale was reduced at the request of Historic KC."

Thus the shorter building.

A request that I think was well thought out. While a few preferred the taller version, an overwhelming majority of people did not. The changes made have been received warmly both here on the Rag and on Twitter and Facebook. The reaction is better than the last version.

Originally I said the design was overly large and intimidating, but the latest plans are much more tasteful.

I feel this will get approved, but the challenges will come on the incentive side of things. Depending on what incentives they ask for, how much, and the term, it's a big wildcard.

we don't need tall in this city, we need density. Tall will come.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 9:49 am we don't need tall in this city, we need density. Tall will come.

Only other thing I think should be advocated for here is a potential reduction in parking. 1:1 is a little high, but also I am unclear on the unit mix. If it is 1:1 with a substantial number of 2br units (or, a man can dream, 3br) then 1:1 on a unit basis is probably alright. Regardless, this is looking good and I hope they can execute. Totally agree w/ comments that it looks like it should have been there all along.

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:12 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:07 pm That is an improvement. Did they allude to the hotel franchise?

I didn't hear anything about a particular hotel franchise beyond they were talking to some. I imagine this will be a middle-upper tier hotel flag.

Can confirm it is a luxury brand (at this time) that would be new-to-market.

For the taller is better crowd: the new version will still peak above Loew's in the skyline view from the south, giving more density and stair step effect. Like the physical separation from the P&L and how the fenestration on the lower floors echos that of the P&L.

Link2 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:10 am

Chris Stritzel wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:12 pm

FangKC wrote: ↑Thu Apr 06, 2023 11:07 pm That is an improvement. Did they allude to the hotel franchise?

I didn't hear anything about a particular hotel franchise beyond they were talking to some. I imagine this will be a middle-upper tier hotel flag.

Can confirm it is a luxury brand (at this time) that would be new-to-market.

If Link2 says it, I'm encouraged. I'd guess a W?

I feel like this entire project is just taking 4L’s idea in a location almost the same place and just beating them to market, lol. Love that.

Not sure I can get behind two curb cuts for a valet area (the are already two more on the same block at Crowne Plaza). Services like this do not belong in your most pedestrian-active area, should be against code in the Loop (I think it is?). The street is plenty wide for a loading zone out front.

For what I proposed it wasn't about being taller for a tall fetish but rather to offset dropping some floors on SW corner and adding to NW corner. So about maintaining density not height. However making NW corner taller than P&L not a notable impact either to PL while even more density. And gives more variation than a large box.

bspecht wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:13 pm Not sure I can get behind two curb cuts for a valet area (the are already two more on the same block at Crowne Plaza). Services like this do not belong in your most pedestrian-active area, should be against code in the Loop (I think it is?). The street is plenty wide for a loading zone out front.

I'm alright with this, to sort of repeat what I said above, should make sure the driveway crossing is at sidewalk height to slow cars, indicate that peds have ROW/priority.

I don't have a problem with the curb cuts for a hotel loading zone. Look at what happens to 12th and the President and that's a small roomed hotel I think than this would be?

And often truck trailers are parked on the west side of Wyandotte for events at Muni Aud clogging the street.

BTW, what was the original proposed height of this(in feet)?

It is not uncommon for building designs to evolve. This one may evolve even more.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CqsjRkIOQVl ... _copy_link

According to CityScene, the original proposal was 30 stories, 300 apartments, 200 hotel rooms and the new proposal calls for a 20-story apartment building and 10-story, still 200-room, hotel. For reference, as I'm sure many people on here know, the P&L building roof tops at 481 ft. (According to Wikipedia.) The building in the new rendering looks like it has more than 20 floors to me. More like 24/25 plus parking. So, I wonder if the new rendering really represents the latest configuration of 20/10 stories.