KCRag Forum

With the massive amount of units delivered in city core over last year (10% of existing stock is massive), not surprising they would wait to monitor absorption rate.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:48 pm I wonder if they're waiting on the cap to move forward with 4 Light plans. And by the cap, I mean the infrastructure bill basically since they're trying to get funds from it.

The cap plays no role but they’re actively designing and planning 4L. Leasing for 3L started yesterday. That demand will help finalize the decision on when to break ground on 4L.

No way there isn’t a massive fight with the next project over incentives.

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 am No way there isn’t a massive fight with the next project over incentives.

I thought the city and cordish already agreed on incentives for all the towers at the same time back with the original agreement. Basically the city funds most of the parking structure or something like that.

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 am No way there isn’t a massive fight with the next project over incentives.

I thought the city and cordish already agreed on incentives for all the towers at the same time back with the original agreement. Basically the city funds most of the parking structure or something like that.

Yes, there is a 2004 master development agreement betwen KC MO and Cordish that set out future incentives for development.

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 4:10 pm

GRID wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:50 am

normalthings wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 am No way there isn’t a massive fight with the next project over incentives.

I thought the city and cordish already agreed on incentives for all the towers at the same time back with the original agreement. Basically the city funds most of the parking structure or something like that.

Yes, there is a 2004 master development agreement betwen KC MO and Cordish that set out future incentives for development.

That did not seem to prevent meddling and debate in 2018 with 3 Light

From June…. Where are they with either of these projects?

In October, Cordish anticipates beginning a $25 million conversion of the historic former Midland office building, at 1221 Baltimore Ave., into The Midland Lofts. The redevelopment next to Arvest Bank Theatre at the Midland will house 139 apartments, all reserved for renters earning up to 80% of the area median income.

Looking down the road, Benjamin said Cordish officials are making plans for Four Light. Specific details could be announced in the next few months.

He pointed to two "obvious" potential development sites for Four Light — northwest of 14th and Main streets, in place of an existing retail building, and a surface lot northeast of Truman Road and Baltimore Avenue, next to B&B Theatres.

More 4 Light ideas, this time from a completed project in Cleveland. this podium would be a nice contrast to those of the Light Towers

I like it.

Wonderful approach to hiding the garage and yes, good contrast.

If 4L goes in at the 14th/main location I think you’ll see a more edgy design. If it goes in next to b&b it will be more like the natural progression we have seen from one to three.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:28 pm ... If it goes in next to b&b it will be more like the natural progression we have seen from one to three.

And that's the problem -- the wall of monotony. We need the edgy design along Truman Road to break up the glass wall. If both sides of Truman end up being a wall of similar glass buildings, the capped deck park won't be that inspiring. The buildings will be so similar that eventually people will not see much reason to pay a premium to live in what will end up being similar to massive worker housing projects.

I just don't understand Cordish's reluctance to use different architecture. These buildings aren't that special. They aren't that dissimilar to The View tower, which was built in 1965. It's not on brand, it's boring. Using completely different designs creates different branding opportunities to appeal to completely different audiences. Well-healed retirees want something different from a tech employee. I don't mind floor-to-ceiling wall-to-wall windows, but not in my bedroom.











Or this, just a big taller.

Well…. They’re doing something right considering their occupancy rate. I understand the concern about the famously coined “Cordish wall” but you can’t please everyone and you can’t stray away from a successful strategy just to satisfy some architectural goal. For some or most people, the differences between 1, 2 and 3 are significant enough. Others want them to look like they have no relationship to each other.

I like being somewhat similar. Jury is out on 2 vs 3. We'll see soon enough!!

Haha I don’t really have a problem with the glass either. I think my bigger complaint is can we actually just get it built.

DColeKC wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:10 pm Well…. They’re doing something right considering their occupancy rate. I understand the concern about the famously coined “Cordish wall” but you can’t please everyone and you can’t stray away from a successful strategy just to satisfy some architectural goal. For some or most people, the differences between 1, 2 and 3 are significant enough. Others want them to look like they have no relationship to each other.

Occupanct rates should be high considering living in the building is the only way you don't have to look at the wall.

I kid.

I’d like a bolder design myself as well, just passing along some info I’ve heard. I hope 4L goes at 14th and main so they can get creative.

Looking at a few of Fangs suggested pictures and, on a few of them, the only thing they did was pattern materials or color block different parts of the building. It costs close to nothing. It just takes a little vision and care for how the building looks vs. merely the financials.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:51 pm Looking at a few of Fangs suggested pictures and, on a few of them, the only thing they did was pattern materials or color block different parts of the building. It costs close to nothing. It just takes a little vision and care for how the building looks vs. merely the financials.

I’m not saying they make all decisions for financial reasons. They have world class architecture firms design these buildings who have designed dozens of different styles. Their vision just doesn’t line up with everyone’s taste. They could make each building look completely and dramatically different for the same money spent but that’s not what they feel is the smart decision. This is also the Midwest and it’s important to consider the location and the customer who will pay rent.

(Edit: not implying everyone who lives in these buildings are Midwesterns)

DColeKC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:13 am

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:51 pm Looking at a few of Fangs suggested pictures and, on a few of them, the only thing they did was pattern materials or color block different parts of the building. It costs close to nothing. It just takes a little vision and care for how the building looks vs. merely the financials.

I’m not saying they make all decisions for financial reasons. They have world class architecture firms design these buildings who have designed dozens of different styles. Their vision just doesn’t line up with everyone’s taste. They could make each building look completely and dramatically different for the same money spent but that’s not what they feel is the smart decision. This is also the Midwest and it’s important to consider the location and the customer who will pay rent.

(Edit: not implying everyone who lives in these buildings are Midwesterns)

St. Louis has thrown up some unique highrises in the past 15 years with more on the way. I think it’s about time we do something unique here. Obviously, you try your best to share our desires and ideas and we all appreciate that and your communicating their future plans to us.

I just think Loews and especially 1400 Baltimore took the same base materials and were still able to differentiate themselves from the Lights. In 30 years, having all similar clad structures built around the same time may make the most inviting city scape.