Automobiles.

[Tosspot]

Nota has a GMC Envoy, a gussied up Trailblazer.

[chrizow]

Nota has a GMC Envoy, a gussied up Trailblazer.

that's right!  heh.  my original point stands! 

[bahua]

Unless I have 17 kids, or a furniture-moving business, I just don't see the point of getting anything bigger than a sedan.

[HalcyonKC]

could have sworn you said you drive a trailblazer back in one of the bickering SUV-hating threads about parking.  my mistake. 

i shouldn't spend that much money on a car either, but it's awfully tempting.

In my experience it's funner to think about the purchase of a new car, than actually doing it.  The moment you actually do it, your options go from many that are fun to daydream about and ponder, to null.  You get the car and realize that actually having it, is sort of anticlimactic.   

There will be a "zen feeling" of having everything be clean, fancy, new-smelling and smooth-operating, no doubt.  But this will then pockmarked by a series of distressing crisis moments.  Each of them will cost you a little bit of your zen, until it is no more, and the car itself just becomes an appliance, and a payment.

The assault on your zen will start with a nasty-looking door ding.  Since the car is new, this is unfairly followed in quick order by a second.  You'll fret over this...then buff some of the marks off with a little car polish.  You'll discover (and pay for) paintless dent repair, and grudgingly decide to live with whatever trace scratches are left in the paint.

But nevermind that because, meanwhile, the monthly payments have started.  You've already lost the fun of thinking about a new car at this point.  In a second cruel twist you now wistfully think to yourself, if I still had that extra $300 per month, what other minor fun things might I be spending it on right now?  Also, since it's new, the resale value of the car is dropping like a rock.  You ponder this as you also think about that home you were wanting to buy, and the fact that the car payment could be going into that--and that at least with real estate, values generally stay flat or go up.

While all this is going on, you realize what clumsy passengers too many of your friends are (who all "love" your car, by the way).  Since you have the nicest car and sort of like to show it off anyway, you become the driver to more social outings than before.  In return your pals promptly scuff your interior up in a few places.  You realize friends are more valuable than material things so rationalize away whatever negativity you feel over this, paying for it with just a little more of your diminishing new-car-zen feeling.  For each scuff you can remember the night that you went out and which friend got a little rowdy or careless--ah the memories.

[nota]

could have sworn you said you drive a trailblazer back in one of the bickering SUV-hating threads about parking.  my mistake. 

i shouldn't spend that much money on a car either, but it's awfully tempting.

Envoy

[nota]

In my experience it's funner to think about the purchase of a new car, than actually doing it.  The moment you actually do it, your options go from many that are fun to daydream about and ponder, to null.  You get the car and realize that actually having it, is sort of anticlimactic.   

There will be a "zen feeling" of having everything be clean, fancy, new-smelling and smooth-operating, no doubt.  But this will then pockmarked by a series of distressing crisis moments.  Each of them will cost you a little bit of your zen, until it is no more, and the car itself just becomes an appliance, and a payment.

The assault on your zen will start with a nasty-looking door ding.  Since the car is new, this is unfairly followed in quick order by a second.  You'll fret over this...then buff some of the marks off with a little car polish.  You'll discover (and pay for) paintless dent repair, and grudgingly decide to live with whatever trace scratches are left in the paint.

But nevermind that because, meanwhile, the monthly payments have started.  You've already lost the fun of thinking about a new car at this point.  In a second cruel twist you now wistfully think to yourself, if I still had that extra $300 per month, what other minor fun things might I be spending it on right now?  Also, since it's new, the resale value of the car is dropping like a rock.  You ponder this as you also think about that home you were wanting to buy, and the fact that the car payment could be going into that--and that at least with real estate, values generally stay flat or go up.

While all this is going on, you realize what clumsy passengers too many of your friends are (who all "love" your car, by the way).  Since you have the nicest car and sort of like to show it off anyway, you become the driver to more social outings than before.  In return your pals promptly scuff your interior up in a few places.  You realize friends are more valuable than material things so rationalize away whatever negativity you feel over this, paying for it with just a little more of your diminishing new-car-zen feeling.  For each scuff you can remember the night that you went out and which friend got a little rowdy or careless--ah the memories.

How true-every word.

And if you don't have a garage for it, it is open to every hailstone, every weirdo with a key in their hand, every door ding, etc.

And then there is the part about you paying a big payment every month for something that just sits most of the time. It's a payment for something to be at your beck and call. You could have a nondescript old beater sitting there and the end result would be the same except the payment would be smaller if any at all. Transportation from point A to point B.

[nota]

Nota has a GMC Envoy, a gussied up Trailblazer.

It's not "gussied up" any more than a similar Trailblazer- it's just a GMC rather than a Chevy product. 2004 model. Just under 50k miles.

We also have a 97 Ford Ranger.

[nota]

A couple of things-

I got my latest Consumer Reports yesterday. Has a huge section on these cars. It might bear picking up at the news stand.

We almost always buy used vehicles. Way way way less pricey than the new models that you drive off the lot depreciating. In fact, the only new car I've ever had was a 85 Mustang. Hubby got a new 95 Ranger.

Used trucks are hard to find at a reasonable price. We are half heartedly looking for one and they are outrageous.

Basically buying a car is a tossup between "want" and "need."

[chrizow]

I got my latest Consumer Reports yesterday. Has a huge section on these cars. It might bear picking up at the news stand.

i don't suppose you could tell me if it says anything alarming (or positive) about the 2008 VW Jetta and Passat or the 2008 Benz C300? 

[chingon]

Holy shit!

A man who objects to GM's lack of corporate ethics re: public transportation is going to buy a German car? Surely you are aware of the politcal histories of VW and Mecedes? Jesus. Now I've heard everything.

[chrizow]

have i talked about gm v. public transit before? 

i dont know the political histories of vw and mercedes, although i'm guessing it has something to do with incinerating people.  from what i understand bmw created gas chambers or something as well?

[LenexatoKCMO]

have i talked about gm v. public transit before? 

i dont know the political histories of vw and mercedes, although i'm guessing it has something to do with incinerating people.  from what i understand bmw created gas chambers or something as well?

Henry Ford was also once an avid admirer of narional socialisim and Adolf Hitler and wrote some rather "enlightening" texts on international jewish banking conspiracies.  In his defense, he did change his tune a bit once Germany declared war on the US - but cynics might point out that this might have to do with the enormous defense contracts he won. 

[chrizow]

i am not really that worried about it.  i have no doubt that all corporations who have been around for a long time have participated in or contributed to some nasty shit.  sucks, but i'm not going to build my own car.

[LenexatoKCMO]

sucks, but i'm not going to build my own car.

You could always order a Caterham Super 7  and build it in the garage.   http://www.caterham.co.uk/

Of course you would definitely need to learn a stick - but you will be the envy of the local SCCA chapter. 

[nota]

i don't suppose you could tell me if it says anything alarming (or positive) about the 2008 VW Jetta and Passat or the 2008 Benz C300?   :)

I guess the cars it compares are higher end. None of those are mentioned although the Mercedes 320 and 350 got high marks.

Check out the mag. Lots of info.

[HalcyonKC]

i don't suppose you could tell me if it says anything alarming (or positive) about the 2008 VW Jetta and Passat or the 2008 Benz C300?   :)

C300 requires premium gas.  Something to check into for some of the other higher end cars you've mentioned too.

[KCLofts]

C300 requires premium gas.  Something to check into for some of the other higher end cars you've mentioned too.

Most higher end cars recommend premium for best performance.  However, the engines are built to accomodate all grades of gas.  Premium is not a requirement.

But really, an extra 3 or 4 bucks per fill up is not really that big of a deal.

[DanCa]

We have a Mercedes Benz 2004 C230 and it's constantly in the shop - electrical problems, catalytic converter problems, sensor problems.  Fun to drive and it looks great, but too much upkeep. 

[chrizow]

i have decided on a car - 2008 Passat VR6 FWD w/Sport Package.  (please don't try to talk me out of this car, as i've agonized about it too long!) 

the car in question resides on a lot in suburban St. Louis, and i will be negotiating on it from afar.  what advice do you more seasoned car buyers have for me, as i have never negotiated a purchase of any kind.

two scenarios:

(1) as soon as we begin the "negotiation dance," i just come right out and make it clear that i know what's up:  "ok, i know that this model has $2740 in dealer markup so let's just start there.  how about $500 over?"  at that point i assume he either gets angry or "jokingly" says something like "golly, i don't think we can go much less than $500 under MSRP."  What then?  Do i feign outrage or just simply push my way forward? 

(2) i wait for him to throw out the first number to show his hand.  "Well, i think we can get you in this Passat for $700 under MSRP!"  at that point i would tell them i know what the markup is and let's get real.

things to think about:

* my research suggests that $1,000 over dealer invoice would be a decent deal, and anything less than that would be even better.  thus do you start really low with the hopes of keeping it at that point - possibly risking making the other party angry so they dig in their heels.
* VW makes and sells way less VR6's than 2.0T's, which could cut either way for me.  they sit on the lot longer so the dealer is shelling out more on floor-plan payments, but at the same time they are more scarce and the dealer might be more inclined to stay at sticker.
* i don't know if this is true and i don't know if the STL dealer is aware of this, but a sales manager at a KC dealership told me that there isn't a single other silver/black (what i hope to get) VR6 in the central region, none at the port of entry, and none currently reported in the production queue. 
* i really wanted the Dynaudio stereo upgrade and the guy knows that.  i could use this car's lack thereof to perhaps get him to come down.
* The dealer has several lots around town and seems rather successful.  i am not sure if this means they are more willing to cut a deal or if they are more likely to play hardball.
* the fact i am negotiating from out of town might indicate to them that they have precisely what i am looking for (which is true).  this might put me in a lesser bargaining position than if i wanted silver/black but was settling for a blue/tan.

etc.

[KCKev]

Apply for a car loan from your credit card. Take that pre-approval with you and the dealership will try to get you to finance through them at a better rate than the card rate.