KCRag Forum

trailerkid wrote: Anyone who mistakes Famous Dave's for a local joint needs his/her head examined. Local and authentic spots don't locate between a Hard Rock Cafe and a Chipotle and most anyone would realize this. How is this any different than bringing a Cici's Pizza to State Street in Chi? IMO I don't even consider Famous Dave's and Bryant's, Gates, OK Joe's, LC's as competitors in any form. Famous Dave's is more a competitor with Applebee's, TGI Friday's and other casual chain restaurants. It's a completely different product than KC BBQ.

TK, I can't believe how much we have been on the same page lately!

Oh and OK Joes best in KC?  Come on...

trailerkid wrote: It's a completely different product than KC BBQ.

Yea, it's St. Louis -"style"  BBQ

Someone please tell me what this is.  I have never associated St. Louis with BBQ before. 

It's a like KC barbeque except a lot denser and it "looks east".

chingon wrote: It's a like KC barbeque except a lot denser and it "looks east".

I think I understand, is it served under a not-so-golden arch?

wikipedia says that St. Louis BBQ sauce is "generally tomato-based, thinned with vinegar, sweet and spicy. It is not as sweet and thick as Kansas City-style barbecue sauce, nor as spicy-hot and thin as Texas-style."

this is verified by my experience w/BBQ in STL.  Big Chief (R.I.P) in old Wildwood, which as a KC-ian i will admit made my fave BBQ of all time, served a pretty spicy/vinegary style of bbq.  Charlotte's Rib, in west county, same story (only not as good).  another place there is Bandana's and it's the same way, although not quite as watery w/the sauce.  the columbia outpost of bandana's (i assume they are the same) isn't bad.

chrizow wrote: wikipedia says that St. Louis BBQ sauce is "generally tomato-based, thinned with vinegar, sweet and spicy. It is not as sweet and thick as Kansas City-style barbecue sauce, nor as spicy-hot and thin as Texas-style."

this is verified by my experience w/BBQ in STL.  Big Chief (R.I.P) in old Wildwood, which as a KC-ian i will admit made my fave BBQ of all time, served a pretty spicy/vinegary style of bbq.  Charlotte's Rib, in west county, same story (only not as good).  another place there is Bandana's and it's the same way, although not quite as watery w/the sauce.  the columbia outpost of bandana's (i assume they are the same) isn't bad.

I've always thought of many KC BBQ sauces as pretty spicey (particularly Bryants).

Highlander wrote: I think I understand, is it served under a not-so-golden arch?

STL bbq is steaming hot in the summertime, unsanitary, and very popular 100 years ago.  But, local residents will come out of the shadows to vehemently defend it to the death.

There is a split in KC between the sweet sauces and vinegary sauces. Bryant's is definitely the benchmark for  the vinegary sauces. I wouldn't describe all KC sauces as sweet that's for sure.

Highlander wrote: Yea, it's St. Louis -"style"  BBQ

Someone please tell me what this is.  I have never associated St. Louis with BBQ before. 

It has to do with the sauce and even more with the cuts of meat. The ribs are cut St. Louis style among other things.

Many STL folk swear by Maull's sauce.

I prefer KC type BBQ-dry rubbed and slow smoked with the thick spicy/sweet sauce on the side. I don't care for the carolina style vinegary sauces.

trailerkid wrote: Anyone who mistakes Famous Dave's for a local joint needs his/her head examined. Local and authentic spots don't locate between a Hard Rock Cafe and a Chipotle and most anyone would realize this. How is this any different than bringing a Cici's Pizza to State Street in Chi? IMO I don't even consider Famous Dave's and Bryant's, Gates, OK Joe's, LC's as competitors in any form. Famous Dave's is more a competitor with Applebee's, TGI Friday's and other casual chain restaurants. It's a completely different product than KC BBQ.

My argument isn't that Dave's BBQ is a direct competitor with local BBQ in the eyes of BBQ enthusiasts, or Kansas Citians in general.  It is more a point that the average conventioneer or tourist (without guidance) would probably wander into the nearest and most prominent BBQ place in the Loop, and not bother to check out local places that require a taxi or bus ride to get to.  Like I said, I don't see this being a huge problem, it doesn't mean all tourists are lazy or unwilling to take the chance, but just as a matter of principle it seems lame that the most prominent and convenientally located BBQ place in the Loop will be a corporate chain in no way connected with KC's culinary tradition.

true...but they would also probably choose Hard Rock if the BBQ wasn't there....it's like the one's who stay downtown STL for a convention and end up at Spaghetti Factory instead of taking time to go to the Hill.

no doubt

I've never had the Spaghetti Factory, but I've eaten a lot at most of the venerable Dago Hill joints, and I think they are incredibley overated.  I feel the same way about Gates and Bryants.  I think the only real reason to eat at most (not all) of the historic restaurants in on Dago Hill in STL or at Gates or Bryants in KC is if you ARE a tourist.  Locals should know better.  
(Sorry, Grid, that means OK Joes)

Wow...I've eaten at maybe ALL the BBQ joints in KC...I still go back consistently to Gates and Bryants...depending on what I'm wanting.

I couldn't disagree with you more. 

Now I'm not as knowledgeable about the hill...but I love going to Rigazzi's.

chingon wrote: I've never had the Spaghetti Factory, but I've eaten a lot at most of the venerable Dago Hill joints, and I think they are incredibley overated.  I feel the same way about Gates and Bryants.  I think the only real reason to eat at most (not all) of the historic restaurants in on Dago Hill in STL or at Gates or Bryants in KC is if you ARE a tourist.  Locals should know better. 
(Sorry, Grid, that means OK Joes)

It isnt tourists that have made Gates, Bryants and OK Joes the thriving businesses that they are. I have heard different opinions on whats the best one but to disparage KC BBQ as a whole....do you even like BBQ?

ComandanteCero wrote: My argument isn't that Dave's BBQ is a direct competitor with local BBQ in the eyes of BBQ enthusiasts, or Kansas Citians in general.  It is more a point that the average conventioneer or tourist (without guidance) would probably wander into the nearest and most prominent BBQ place in the Loop, and not bother to check out local places that require a taxi or bus ride to get to.  Like I said, I don't see this being a huge problem, it doesn't mean all tourists are lazy or unwilling to take the chance, but just as a matter of principle it seems lame that the most prominent and convenientally located BBQ place in the Loop will be a corporate chain in no way connected with KC's culinary tradition.

Yea, that was my concern when I first heard this. But you know what? There's no authentic New York food in Times Square. There's no authentic Chicago food at Navy Pier. Most "entertainment districts" usually have mass-produced, mass-audienced bland crap (see Plaza, Country Club). You have to go a block away to find the good stuff.

So I'm excited about the ripple effect P&L will have on the Crossroads and other surrounding neighborhoods. You'll probably find me eating there more often than at the P&L.

ComandanteCero wrote: My argument isn't that Dave's BBQ is a direct competitor with local BBQ in the eyes of BBQ enthusiasts, or Kansas Citians in general.  It is more a point that the average conventioneer or tourist (without guidance) would probably wander into the nearest and most prominent BBQ place in the Loop, and not bother to check out local places that require a taxi or bus ride to get to.  Like I said, I don't see this being a huge problem, it doesn't mean all tourists are lazy or unwilling to take the chance, but just as a matter of principle it seems lame that the most prominent and convenientally located BBQ place in the Loop will be a corporate chain in no way connected with KC's culinary tradition.

Do you have any idea how large of a chain Famous Dave's is? There probably isn't a person from any of the surrounding states who hasn't heard of it or isn't within a short drive of a franchise. The red states indicate the states that have a Famous Dave's outpost.

trailerkid wrote: Do you have any idea how large of a chain Famous Dave's is? There probably isn't a person from any of the surrounding states who hasn't heard of it or isn't within a short drive of a franchise. The red states indicate the states that have a Famous Dave's outpost.

Interesting. They have one in St. Joseph as well as Manhattan. And we're getting this in the P&L. 

KCMax wrote: Yea, that was my concern when I first heard this. But you know what? There's no authentic New York food in Times Square. There's no authentic Chicago food at Navy Pier. Most "entertainment districts" usually have mass-produced, mass-audienced bland crap (see Plaza, Country Club). You have to go a block away to find the good stuff.

So I'm excited about the ripple effect P&L will have on the Crossroads and other surrounding neighborhoods. You'll probably find me eating there more often than at the P&L.

Well observed. I suppose it's not really possible for it to be any other way. Successfully catering to tourists has to mean giving them something they are already familiar with, which usually excludes "local flavor" (if the whole point of local flavor is that it's unique).

trailerkid wrote: Do you have any idea how large of a chain Famous Dave's is? There probably isn't a person from any of the surrounding states who hasn't heard of it or isn't within a short drive of a franchise. The red states indicate the states that have a Famous Dave's outpost.

I can safely say I had never heard of Famous Dave's until this thread.  From looking at many of the town names, it looks like they mostly locate in small cities/towns and perhaps some suburban cities.  I honestly don't think someone from Boston, NY, Chicago, D.C is going to know what Famous Dave's is.  They don't have the national advertising presence of a TGIF, Applebee's, Chili's etc, even if they are aiming for that same tier.

Anyway, I was just making a passing observation.  If tourists know to avoid it for the more authentic, i'll be pleased as can be, if they don't I'll be mildly annoyed.  I certainly won't lose sleep over it since i probably won't know either way.