KCRag Forum

ldai_phs wrote:

maybe they can start walking, biking, and public transitting to and from work[/quote]
Yeah, cause even if someone had a death wish and wants to ride in KC traffic and all jobs easily accessible on our HUGE transportation system.

beautyfromashes wrote:

scooterj wrote: I just don't understand how no one else sees that this is setting up for a scenario that is no different from what is currently happening from Truman to 11th with all the garage entrances.

It’s going to be terrible for traffic in Midtown and I don’t trust that ‘experts’ have it figured out. No left turns on all of Main will be a mess for residents. How is someone going south on Main supposed to get to their home in Hyde Park or going North get to a home west of Main? You’re creating a SW Trafficway type barrier. But, I get the feeling that those in charge don’t really care. They talk about commute tunes but really their talking about their own commute times or are more worried about getting quickly from DT to shopping on The Plaza. Not saying I’m against the streetcar, just that residents concerns are being listened to but not a deciding factor in design.

I've seen nothing to suggest no left turns throughout midtown.

KCPowercat wrote:

beautyfromashes wrote:

scooterj wrote: I just don't understand how no one else sees that this is setting up for a scenario that is no different from what is currently happening from Truman to 11th with all the garage entrances.

It’s going to be terrible for traffic in Midtown and I don’t trust that ‘experts’ have it figured out. No left turns on all of Main will be a mess for residents. How is someone going south on Main supposed to get to their home in Hyde Park or going North get to a home west of Main? You’re creating a SW Trafficway type barrier. But, I get the feeling that those in charge don’t really care. They talk about commute tunes but really their talking about their own commute times or are more worried about getting quickly from DT to shopping on The Plaza. Not saying I’m against the streetcar, just that residents concerns are being listened to but not a deciding factor in design.

I've seen nothing to suggest no left turns throughout midtown.

it wouldn't really matter if you did or didn't see them. people who live off SW Tfwy have lived with no left turns for decades and they get around fine

it's one of those arguments that looks good until you look around and discover people adjust well

DaveKCMO wrote:You can still calm BKS BLVD without the streetcar.

Can =/= will.

beautyfromashes wrote:

chingon wrote:
I’m torn. I like the CCROW because that is indeed what it’s for, but few streets in town need road calming more than that stretch of Brookside “Boulevard”.

I kind of like center running for the south section. Eliminating the medians at 47th will cut down on the excessive panhandling in that area. I’ve seen ‘turf wars’ at the intersections there with people trying to get the ‘prime spot’.

It’s my understanding that the CCROW routing is only for the section south of Volker. I’m with you on the benefits of having a center running alignment and platform at 47th/CleaverII/Main/BKS. I just think running the streetcar on BKS south of there would do a lot to slow traffic from its current average of 55mph between 51st and Brush Creek. But I also kind of philosophically believe the streetcar should run on the trolley track right of way.

I think getting it on the CCROW would help validate to #savetrolleytrail peoople that they can coexist very well.

KCPowercat wrote:I think getting it on the CCROW would help validate to #savetrolleytrail peoople that they can coexist very well.

I doubt they will move from their determination one iota, regardless.

KCPowercat wrote:
I've seen nothing to suggest no left turns throughout midtown.

Was suggested a few posts up so responding to that, and haven’t heard that left turns will still be in play, especially with it looking like Midtown will be center-running. Dave will have to answer that.

The maps show multiple spaces for a middle turn lane.

KCPowercat wrote:The maps show multiple spaces for a middle turn lane.

Yes, but all of those that are open have rescricted turn both morning and evening. So, for 4+ hours a day there would be no left turn anywhere from The Plaza to DT, similar to SE Trafficway. You could potentially be cutting off Hyde Park from Main southbound traffic and Old Hyde Park from northbound traffic. Or, you could have the stupid right turn then U-turn like in SW Trafficway to go west.

Seems like a lot of assumptions being made

KCPowercat wrote:Seems like a lot of assumptions being made

Perhaps. Seems like a pretty easy question to answer. Maybe, Dave will let us know where left turns will be allowed along the line for each intersection and what other time of day restrictions there will be for those intersection. The cut in lanes will be a headache for Midtown residents but should push increased traffic to roads like Broadway and Troost. It’s probably worth the pain for increased safety when walking and biking. I just would hate for Main to be totally unusable for residents because they can’t get to their houses due to left turn rules.

beautyfromashes wrote:

ldai_phs wrote:

maybe they can start walking, biking, and public transitting to and from work

Yeah, cause even if someone had a death wish and wants to ride in KC traffic and all jobs easily accessible on our HUGE transportation system.

I feel like arguing over potentially reducing car transit times for the workers of 1 office building by 1-3minutes when building a major rail transit line is a bit sad.

Just came back from SF. 19th ave is the main N/S thoroughfare thru town and there are no left turns allowed.

Turn right one block ahead and loop back around, it's not that hard.

Route redundancy is abundant in old KC. Coming south from downtown on Main and can't turn left into Hyde Park? You'll learn to take Gillham. Coming north from the Plaza on Main and can't turn left into Old Hyde Park? You'll learn to take Broadway. Not a big deal.

So voter turnout for PIAC is estimated around 8%. Thats pathetic. Does anyone know how many ballots were requested for streetcar?

missingkc wrote:Route redundancy is abundant in old KC. Coming south from downtown on Main and can't turn left into Hyde Park? You'll learn to take Gillham. Coming north from the Plaza on Main and can't turn left into Old Hyde Park? You'll learn to take Broadway. Not a big deal.

Yeah, I don't see the big deal with restricting left turns. Even if they restrict them, Main will still have more left turn access than a major suburban arterial does. It's very common for busy streets in urban areas to have only a few place that allow left turns. KC has a lot of road capacity. I have worked in traffic engineering for a long time and my opinion is that you can give Main a road diet with no problems. None of the major roads in urban KC are remotely congested even during the peak 30 minutes of rush hour. Even SW Trafficway which carries the most volume, is never really congested to the point that is creates delays of more than a minute.

People will adjust and learn to better use the urban grid of streets available which right now is very under utilized.

Although it's counterproductive to close entire streets too, like Grand, which causes people to avoid Grand and drive down Main inside the loop. This is manufacturing unnecessary congestion. After the streetcar is extended, through traffic from downtown to Westport, Plaza etc will start using Broadway and Gillham which have plenty of capacity.

GRID wrote: Yeah, I don't see the big deal with restricting left turns.

Yeah, but put the streetcar on the curb and it isn’t a problem at all. Instead, we put it in the middle so we don’t have to worry about Ubers having a place to park on Main?

beautyfromashes wrote:

GRID wrote: Yeah, I don't see the big deal with restricting left turns.

Yeah, but put the streetcar on the curb and it isn’t a problem at all. Instead, we put it in the middle so we don’t have to worry about Ubers having a place to park on Main?

Center Running is faster and has less delays. Real Light Rail like in Houston run in dedicated center lanes. We should do the same imho.
Curb running sets curb usage in stone for many years to come. Curb running is slower and has more delays.Curb Running isn’t used by long distance LR systems.

^ And that’s where my opinion differs from most of yours. I want streetcar for development of Midtown first and as a commuting option second. Those who don’t live in Midtown want a quick run through the neighborhood to get to a restaurant on The Plaza or First Friday’s or Sprint Center. I understand that viewpoint since that is what would be best for your particular use. I want more stops and better access to, hopefully new, shops and bars/restaurants in Midtown because this benefits my use.