KCRag Forum

I know very little, but I would not undersell how much certain people feel strongly about 18th and vine.

There is also just a shit ton of land banked in the east village.

Gov already owns all/most of the land needed for an 18 Vine Stadium. Its politically favorable and builds off of the existing city investment at 18th & Vine. If the Royals go downtown, they are going to 18 Vine

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:52 am Gov already owns all/most of the land needed for an 18 Vine Stadium. Its politically favorable and builds off of the existing city investment at 18th & Vine. If the Royals go downtown, they are going to 18 Vine

I’m so worried about building around it, and from what I’ve heard it’s been very meh.

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:49 am City and at least some of the owners want 18th Vine. If they go downtown, it's 18th & Vine.

30 minute walk from the streetcar. If I get a vote, at this point, it’d be a no.

I do not see the Chiefs moving to VW and being the 3rd major venue for that area. Also means they have to fit what they want to do within the existing framework of VW. Yes there are certain things there that would benefit them already in place for sure. It's a feasible location for sure. However I think if the Royals move downtown it gives the Chiefs an opportunity to reimagine the TSC and make it 100% Chief's centric if you will. VW didn't exist 20yrs ago and then blew up. I get that TSC and immediate area is industrial, older, and a bit dingy. But here is an opportunity for 1 ownership group to work with the city to re-develop the complex and potentially spur or development around it to the East especially (just not sure if anything could be done to the industrial area of Leeds and etc.).

Plus if the Chiefs leave, what will become of the TSC then? No Chiefs, No Royals. just a vast wasteland of concrete. If you love strip malls and such that is what will fill it in most likely, and that will take a very long time. SO I worry about that.

As far as the Chiefs moving to STL, I do not see that happening ever. Maybe a .000001 chance it happens. STL has lost 2 NFL franchises. The Chiefs are one of the founding fathers of the AFL and have a deeply rooted legacy not only within the NFL but also in Kansas City. Yes I know they moved here from Dallas after 3 seasons. They have been in KC since and engrained in our sports history of the town, owned by the same family. KC has been good to the Hunt's and the Hunt's have been good to KC. I'll never say never but it's highly unlikely. True STL's media market is slightly larger based on the population being slightly larger. I think they have roughly 250K more TV households than KC giving them the higher rank. However KC consistently out performs STL and a lot of major media markets when it comes to sports television consumption when comparing % of viewer not just total eyeballs watching, ie. KC has a higher % of their population watching than other markets for sports. So it's an interesting talking point but one that has a very slim chance of materializing. STL more likely to get an expansion team or the relocation of say a Jacksonville franchise that continues to struggle. But the NFL is a much different animal than the NBA or MLB when it come to relocation. Having such a strong central ruling body of owners helps the NFL shape its business plan, as revenue is shared amongst all teams, especially the TV money. Less "kings" than you have with MLB for instance and more of an "Emperor" But interesting thought for sure

If Royals move out of TSC the combined maintenance of TSC/expensive new Royals home could be quite a bit higher than TSC alone. In the long run, maybe an extra hit on the county. From an emotional perspective a Chiefs move to KS would probably hit hard for many but from a practical perspective it may make sense to balance things out and Chiefs owners may like idea of being on forefront of Topeka's minds rather than a small share of Jeff City's. I wouldn't go as far to recommend it but there are reasons it could occur.

There are a lot of reasons the Royals should just stay where they are. If Royals are not near the heart of downtown energy (18th/Vine doesn't cut it), there's really not much benefit in moving from TSC, not enough upside to offset the downside.

18th Vine is downtown. Only 2 blocks farther east than the East Village. East Village is not in the heart of downtown energy. Stadiums shouldn’t be in the heart of existing neighborhoods.


18V and east Crossroads will redevelop and is already starting to. The KeyStone buildings are the first phase of the future Royals Ball Park Village.

I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

My first ball game as a kid was at old Municipal Stadium. Granted, to a child anything seems fantastic, but I remember it as an exciting urban atmosphere. There was a view of downtown from right field. People in houses along Brooklyn made money by parking cars in their front yards, and sold BBQ on the sidewalks. There was a gravel parking lot on the north with a ped bridge over the terminal tracks. Baseball on 18th between Paseo and Crossroads could work.

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:53 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

It’s across the street. Doesn’t really matter what people say it’s downtown/adjacent and a better location than putting it immediately in the heart of things.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:53 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

Ha. There are people who think the Plaza is "downtown."

"I went downtown to the Plaza..." -- overheard regularly in suburbia

Streetcar tying it all together will blur the lines even further. Economically some agency sites already often consider the RCP corridor as the 'downtown' urban center as well. Nothing wrong with it but can understand how those of us within will react to it. A free connector and infill eventually coming with it really will make it seem as one big ass downtown.

Keep in mind that in the earlier years of KC what we now call Xroads as part of downtown used to be considered Midtown.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:53 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

How many people on this forum have been to the east village in the part month?

I'd expect that number to be low.

Goonies wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:27 pm

normalthings wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:52 am Gov already owns all/most of the land needed for an 18 Vine Stadium. Its politically favorable and builds off of the existing city investment at 18th & Vine. If the Royals go downtown, they are going to 18 Vine

No thanks 18th and Vine sucks this isnt happening no matter how much you keep trying to push it

I'm just reporting whats happening.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:38 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:53 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

How many people on this forum have been to the east village in the part month?

I'd expect that number to be low.

Yesterday.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:38 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:53 pm

earthling wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:41 am I agree it's greater downtown but not really part of the energy. Just not worth moving there. Not enough upside compared to staying.

Yeah I don’t think the average person would consider it downtown either. I think you’d get a lot of “I thought we were getting a downtown stadium?” if that were the case.

How many people on this forum have been to the east village in the part month?

I'd expect that number to be low.

Depends on what you mean by "been to". Driven through? Sure. Went there specifically with intent? Well, no, there's nowhere to go...

I went to transit center to change buses, and also the Commerce Bank at 12th and Charlotte, while I was waiting for the bus to come.

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:13 pm Worth noting that last time they approved the renovations but didn’t go for the roof.

It’s also worth noting a lot of complexities here that are ongoing that will make this a long process. If kc gets the wc, that will involve some arrowhead upgrades. Stl is also in intense litigation with the nfl that could end up with being promised a team. The state would likely get involved with both.


This will be a very long process.

STL settles for less than a billion. Wow, they really hyped that case up way too much.

https://twitter.com/ben_fred/status/146 ... 16132?s=21

And my guess is now STL will never get an NFL team again as retribution, even when NFL expands. The end.