KCRag Forum

Goonies wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:06 am

shinatoo wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:40 pm

Goonies wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:06 pm

How so? I've never been to Cleveland but IMO the Cardinals game day experience is much better than the Royals and I'm a Royals fan.

I've been to STl, Denver and Clevland (plus a bunch of other non DT stadiums like Angles, LA, Houston, Arlington, Milwaukee, ATL). Clevland is well integrated into the Downtown environment. Plenty of active bars and restaurants, lots of condos. I walked maybe 5 blocks from where I parked and the drinking and dining options were innumerable. Plus there is a huge casino directly adjacent to the stadium. It's also on the edge of DT with highways on the south and west sides making traffic a non-issue. Just a great experience.

Generally the same type of location as STL but a much higher level of activity.

This sounds amazing. I hope that's what we get with our new stadium.

I would say the problem with Progressive field is just that the experience felt somewhat generic and forgettable. Given, I was much younger when I visited but I recall the stadium concessions being not good.

For best ballparks and we should aspire to is PNC Park in Pittsburgh. Beautiful views, location is amazing, memorable design and atmosphere, great concessions and all around experience. The city is also beautiful, very clean and a nice blend of historic and modern architecture with a lot of activities to do.

PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.

I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:40 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.

I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is

I think this is the opportunity where you get more stores and restaurants. P&L has restaurants, but other than that inside the loop has hardly any. I think getting some next to the stadium would be perfect, and it would spread out and balance the eating and shopping in the loop better than just all concentrated at P&L.

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:46 pm

WoodDraw wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:40 pm

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:40 am PNC is good. I think the gold standard is AT&T park in San Francisco. I think the goal should also be just not to build a super generic stadium. Hopefully that shouldn’t be too much a problem with the architecture firms we have here.

I think this is a good point, and the architecture firms will treat it as a huge project. You don't want an embarrassment in your own city.

For me it's just what development surrounds it. You don't want to compete with p&l, but it can't be garages and parking lots that never get developed because everyone is happy with the parking revenue.

I'll oppose any downtown stadium that doesn't include zoning and development. If not, leave it where it is

I think this is the opportunity where you get more stores and restaurants. P&L has restaurants, but other than that inside the loop has hardly any. I think getting some next to the stadium would be perfect, and it would spread out and balance the eating and shopping in the loop better than just all concentrated at P&L.

The problem with retail there is again parking. The only thing that will work is say that no surrounding block can be surface parking, every garage has to have at first level retail, and the royals can't operate any surface parkings lots as part of any incentive package

The restaurant/bar/retail mix in the East Village can be completely different than Power & Light. Go for smaller locally-run places, and a mix of some fast food franchises (which are usually owned/operated by local people). Place some smaller retail spaces in the ground floors of apartment buildings for things like convenience stores/small grocers, liquor/wine shops, pet supplies/grooming/boarding, dry cleaners, hair salons, attorneys, dentists, eye doctors, coffee shops, a cannabis dispensary, nail shops/spas, and the random shops that sell curios, cards, candles, gifts, etc.

Ideally, all four corners of every block that is residential/mixed use should have these types of retail spaces. Have one larger retail space for a Urban Target, or something like Bed, Bath & Beyond. The later are often multi-floor spaces in other cities.

We need to recruit some immigrants to open ethnic places. This provides variety and a draw. Downtown used to have a bunch of Chinese restaurants.

As far as an innovative amenity, developers should try providing on-site shared vehicles to apartment dwellers hourly, daily to offset the need for residents to own and park their vehicles full-time. Other little things they can do is provide carts for residents to use to haul in groceries and other things from garages. It's such a pain to make multiple trips after heavy shopping. This is also a considerate thing for senior residents.

Why is a thread called Downtown Baseball Stadium listed in Other Kansas City Topics and not the Downtown thread?

That question got me thinking..
What if KC built a stadium at the empty lot where I lived at 17th washington? Wouldn't feel so bad about them demolishing it
Just outside of DT proper. Trieing to envision the skyline fron Liberty Memorial with a stadium there.

KCKev wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:45 pm That question got me thinking..
What if KC built a stadium at the empty lot where I lived at 17th washington? Wouldn't feel so bad about them demolishing it
Just outside of DT proper. Trieing to envision the skyline fron Liberty Memorial with a stadium there.

That's actually not far from where the Star has suggested a site in their interactive graphic today showing 4 theoretical parks downtown. The Star's location (1 in the article) is Wyandotte to Broadway and 17th to 19th and immediately south of the Performing Arts Center. The Star's location would take out a lot of the western Crossroads.

Star is surprisingly supportive of the new stadium for now. Could be because their readership is majority in support.

66% of respondents said tailgating at a new stadium does not matter which is higher than the amount that doesn't care about tailgating today! That stuck out to me as an early indication that people are willing to give up the unique "benefits" of TSC for a new stadium.

Also seems like Northland and JOCO more supportive than the east suburbs. Makes sense because a downtown location will shift travel times. Funny that they included a quote from a Nebraska fan who says they will never go to a game again if the stadium moves.

I read the Star's articles today on the Downtown stadium. Generally was supportive and I thought their analysis was interesting. However, I don't know who suggested the immediately south of the Performing Arts Center location, but there is no way it would fit unless you raized 2 blocks of existing structures to the East of it.

Can picture it now in my minds eye.
Cordish Royals Tower Stadium.
Start working on the plans all you developers and the board will decide.
Maybe that's why this thread hasn't been moved yet....

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:57 pm I read the Star's articles today on the Downtown stadium. Generally was supportive and I thought their analysis was interesting. However, I don't know who suggested the immediately south of the Performing Arts Center location, but there is no way it would fit unless you raized 2 blocks of existing structures to the East of it.

New stadium will need a redevelopment district around it unless citizens will to pay for most/all. West Crossroads and Northloop can’t provide that so I think we are safe there.

Just read all of the Star's numerous articles today on downtown Royals...needless to say, John Sherman all but flat out said "yeah I want this badly and this is what's best for our city."

Also very interesting to note that Sherman said (paraphrasing) "We've got the parking situation figured out and we just have to present it to people and they'll understand it."

They also noted "we have the best sports architects and the world here, so they're not gonna fuck this up esp for their hometown"

My favorite line from Mellinger was this though: "Recent major projects in Kansas City — specifically what is now T-Mobile Center, the streetcar line and the new airport terminal — have generally followed a similar pattern in the public discourse: initial pushback based on need and cost, then gradually more support as concerns are addressed, eventually leading to popular acceptance."

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-c ... stage_lead

AlkaliAxel wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:50 am Just read all of the Star's numerous articles today on downtown Royals...needless to say, John Sherman all but flat out said "yeah I want this badly and this is what's best for our city."

Also very interesting to note that Sherman said (paraphrasing) "We've got the parking situation figured out and we just have to present it to people and they'll understand it."

They also noted "we have the best sports architects and the world here, so they're not gonna fuck this up esp for their hometown"

My favorite line from Mellinger was this though: "Recent major projects in Kansas City — specifically what is now T-Mobile Center, the streetcar line and the new airport terminal — have generally followed a similar pattern in the public discourse: initial pushback based on need and cost, then gradually more support as concerns are addressed, eventually leading to popular acceptance."

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-c ... stage_lead

Does anyone have a link to the primary article released today?

normalthings wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:31 pm

alejandro46 wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:57 pm I read the Star's articles today on the Downtown stadium. Generally was supportive and I thought their analysis was interesting. However, I don't know who suggested the immediately south of the Performing Arts Center location, but there is no way it would fit unless you raized 2 blocks of existing structures to the East of it.

New stadium will need a redevelopment district around it unless citizens will to pay for most/all. West Crossroads and Northloop can’t provide that so I think we are safe there.

Stating that because of space? North loop could get a lot more space to work with if the North loop goes away.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:16 am Stating that because of space? North loop could get a lot more space to work with if the North loop goes away.

Not really

For a minimum of 600x800 to put in a stadium Delaware would need to be removed and the streetcar realigned

The trench is about 350 feet wide. Down to 7th is plenty long to get 600 feet of space but Delaware is centered in 980 feet (Walnut to Wyandotte)

flyingember wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:22 am

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:16 am Stating that because of space? North loop could get a lot more space to work with if the North loop goes away.

Not really

For a minimum of 600x800 to put in a stadium Delaware would need to be removed and the streetcar realigned

The trench is about 350 feet wide. Down to 7th is plenty long to get 600 feet of space but Delaware is centered in 980 feet (Walnut to Wyandotte)

Plus the additional regulatory hurdles of not just removing the highway, but also all of the additional improvements to the rest of the loop to improve traffic flow then you just add in the ballgame crowds.

I know they cant announce anything, but it's always been the East Village . I don't have some inside baseball here, it's just obvious. Big vacant piece of land, right by the highway, owned by largely the same entity, JE Dunn is literally right next door who also has an ownership interest in the team.

I would love to read the article, but I refuse to subscribe to the Star. Does anybody have any of the renderings from the article?

It would be nice if somebody came up with some actual good ideas/renderings for a downtown park. Everything I have seen so far has been pretty bad and generally a downgrade from Kauffman. Maybe some serious renderings from Populus with some real "wow" factor would move the needle and give the idea some legs.

A good chunk wants a "blow me away stadium" the other chunk wants an economical "pay for it yourself stadium". Need to determine a balance between the two before fancy renderings or proposals are of any value. Populous can design the best stadium ever imagined but its meaningless without a budget