OFFICIAL: Briarcliff Village

[midtown guy]

I hadn't even thought about that - what impact will hotel rooms at Briarcliff have on the prospects for a new DT convention hotel.  I would think the addition of rooms that close cant be a good thing.  And what convention goer is actually going to want to stay on the wrong side of the river.  Sounds like we are shooting ourselves in the fucking foot to me. 

I concur -- John may have just made my decision on who to vote for for Mayor a bit easier...

[DaveKCMO]

funkhouser!

[Thrillcekr]

I thought this whole TIF thing was meant to encourage development in areas that might not otherwise be developed.  With Briarcliff, it sounds like they've got more demand than supply so I don't really see where this sort of incentive is necessary.  I also don't understand why they are so happy about a new hotel being built close to downtown.  They make it sound as if they've done a really great thing.  They should be using incentives to encourage people to build hotels IN downtown.

[Marreekarr]

I thought this whole TIF thing was meant to encourage development in areas that might not otherwise be developed.

That's right!  Right on Kard for keeping us abreast on this one.  I'm glad someone at the bizjournal can smell the stench emanating from City Hall.  And we wonder why people in the suburbs don't trust KCMO when it comes to issues relating to bi-state taxes.

[bahua]

I thought this whole TIF thing was meant to encourage development in areas that might not otherwise be developed.  With Briarcliff, it sounds like they've got more demand than supply so I don't really see where this sort of incentive is necessary.

Yeah, it isn't necessary. The thing is, a developer can save a lot of money by getting their buddies at city hall to kick them a deal. The whole situation reeks of corruption. It just stinks.

[ShowME]

And we wonder why people in the suburbs don't trust KCMO when it comes to issues relating to bi-state taxes.

Huh??  Wtf did that come from?  Maybe it's you that has issues.

[LenexatoKCMO]

Huh??  Wtf did that come from?  Maybe it's you that has issues.

Woah deep breaths.  I think his point was that this is an example of KCMO displaying less than above-board responsibility with the public coffers (something some of the most dedicated KCMO posters on the site were generally agreeing with).  While it is probably dubious that lots of non-kcmo suburbanites will necessarily take notice of this specific boondogle, it is perhaps fair to say that if indeed there is something sleazy behind this, it is exactly the sort of thing that has contributed to the city's poor reputation amongst its neighbors for fiscal responsibility and sound governance. 

[Marreekarr]

...if indeed there is something sleazy behind this, it is exactly the sort of thing that has contributed to the city's poor reputation amongst its neighbors for fiscal responsibility and sound governance. 

Well said.  Although, I must agree with ShowMe.  I do have many issues, some which I chose to share with you all and some which I chose to uh...er...keep to myself!

[GRID]

I thought this whole TIF thing was meant to encourage development in areas that might not otherwise be developed.  With Briarcliff, it sounds like they've got more demand than supply so I don't really see where this sort of incentive is necessary.  I also don't understand why they are so happy about a new hotel being built close to downtown.  They make it sound as if they've done a really great thing.  They should be using incentives to encourage people to build hotels IN downtown.

Briarcliff would not have developed (the way it has developed) without tiffs.  Ten years ago, people would have laughed if you said Briarcliff West would look like it does today.  A very rough terrain location between Riverside and the water treatment plant along a run down highway with no interchange, no Briarcliff Blvd, no multi million dollar executive housing, nothing.  You "might" have eventually seen few random homes go up, but nothing like the classy development that has happened there.

I would bet that every one of the tenants in those office buildings would be in JoCo right now if that development didn't exist.  I would bet over half the cars in the office building parking lots are JoCo cars, or at least that's what I have seen while there.  This is a very nice development and it was a brownfield compared to any of your office parks in South Creek or College Blvd or Tiffany Springs.  This is what tiffs are for, to create a first class development in an urban or "infill" location.

My god, the tenants in those buildings I'm sure eat at Lideas, Jack Stack, etc.  They will heavily contribute to the power and light district. They are building the FIRST REAL suburban high density condo buildings in the metro area. The developer of Briarcliff LOVES downtown.  He is offering a unique mixed use atmosphere five minutes from downtown, ten minutes from KCI in KCMO to people that probably would otherwise have no idea what is going on Downtown because they would be in a fringe office park otherwise. That is the market Briarcliff is after.  They really don't compete with Downtown for office tenants and I think you could argue the same with the residential and hotel component.

This development has also drastically improved the image of KC as people cab into the city from KCI via Broadway.  A hotel there would be a great addition to our hotel choices.  The views of downtown will be so dramatic visitors will be drawn into the city and they will never forget our amazing skyline from the 10th floor of a hotel on one of the hills of Briarcliff.

I don't understand this, I really don't.  KCMO has to compete with its burbs, even the burbs within its own city limits.  This is a great project and I for one hope the development succeeds with or without incentives.

Briarcliff will compete with Tiffany Springs Hotels, OP office parks and plaza condos sure, but it will help Downtown IMO and it sure gives the city some much needed "red carpet" as you enter the city.

[justin8216]

KCMo Approves Ultra Mega TIF for the blighted Briarcliff area!

There is no room left for any MO forum members to criticize the incentives used for Village West. To do so would be pure hypocrisy.

At least our incentives begot Wyandotte County's citizens and government tangible benefits.

What are the benefits to the citizens of KCMO for subsidizing Briarcliff? More hotel rooms close to downtown? Please! Is that the best they could come up with? I'm hard pressed to think of any real benefits to the citizens of KCMO for this blatant corporate welfare.

[dangerboy]

KCMo Approves Ultra Mega TIF for the blighted Briarcliff area!

There is no room left for any MO forum members to criticize the incentives used for Village West. To do so would be pure hypocrisy.

At least our incentives begot Wyandotte County's citizens and government tangible benefits.

What are the benefits to the citizens of KCMO for subsidizing Briarcliff? More hotel rooms close to downtown? Please! Is that the best they could come up with? I'm hard pressed to think of any real benefits to the citizens of KCMO for this blatant corporate welfare.

Justin, there you go again, breaking your promise to never post in a KCMO thread.

[Thrillcekr]

Briarcliff would not have developed (the way it has developed) without tiffs.  Ten years ago, people would have laughed if you said Briarcliff West would look like it does today.  A very rough terrain location between Riverside and the water treatment plant along a run down highway with no interchange, no Briarcliff Blvd, no multi million dollar executive housing, nothing.  You "might" have eventually seen few random homes go up, but nothing like the classy development that has happened there.

I would bet that every one of the tenants in those office buildings would be in JoCo right now if that development didn't exist.  I would bet over half the cars in the office building parking lots are JoCo cars, or at least that's what I have seen while there.  This is a very nice development and it was a brownfield compared to any of your office parks in South Creek or College Blvd or Tiffany Springs.  This is what tiffs are for, to create a first class development in an urban or "infill" location.

My god, the tenants in those buildings I'm sure eat at Lideas, Jack Stack, etc.  They will heavily contribute to the power and light district. They are building the FIRST REAL suburban high density condo buildings in the metro area. The developer of Briarcliff LOVES downtown.  He is offering a unique mixed use atmosphere five minutes from downtown, ten minutes from KCI in KCMO to people that probably would otherwise have no idea what is going on Downtown because they would be in a fringe office park otherwise. That is the market Briarcliff is after.  They really don't compete with Downtown for office tenants and I think you could argue the same with the residential and hotel component.

This development has also drastically improved the image of KC as people cab into the city from KCI via Broadway.  A hotel there would be a great addition to our hotel choices.  The views of downtown will be so dramatic visitors will be drawn into the city and they will never forget our amazing skyline from the 10th floor of a hotel on one of the hills of Briarcliff.

I don't understand this, I really don't.  KCMO has to compete with its burbs, even the burbs within its own city limits.  This is a great project and I for one hope the development succeeds with or without incentives.

Briarcliff will compete with Tiffany Springs Hotels, OP office parks and plaza condos sure, but it will help Downtown IMO and it sure gives the city some much needed "red carpet" as you enter the city.

You're talking ten years ago.  This incentive is being handed out NOW.  You can't convince me that a red hot area like Briarcliff needs TIF to make these things happen now.  They WANT IT but they sure as hell don't NEED IT.  The occupancy rate testifies to that.

[kard]

Right.  TIF's help get things off the ground, but after that the place should sustain itself.  Are they still handing TIF's in JoCo to places like Park Place and Prairie Fire?

[KCMax]

There is no room left for any MO forum members to criticize the incentives used for Village West. To do so would be pure hypocrisy.

How do you figure? Nearly all MO forum members here are criticizing TIF for Briarcliff. Its ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as TIF at Village West for a friggin Wal Mart.

[GRID]

Right.  TIF's help get things off the ground, but after that the place should sustain itself.  Are they still handing TIF's in JoCo to places like Park Place and Prairie Fire?

So they are asking for new tiffs?  I've been out of the news loop latley.

[LenexatoKCMO]

So they are asking for new tiffs?  I've been out of the news loop latley.

Yeah they are looking to get a load more TIF for more retail and a hotel.  That is why people are up in arms.  Brirarcliff is way past the needing public support stage.  Plus the additional hotel rooms on the wrong side of the river seem pretty questionable. 

[kard]

So they are asking for new tiffs?  I've been out of the news loop latley.

It sounds like a Super TIF is about to be handed to Briarcliff.

I gathered it was originally thought up awhile ago by Cash Cow Cooper but it only being voted on now.

Check that Biz Journal article.  It's rather interesting.

[bahua]

You're talking ten years ago.  This incentive is being handed out NOW.  You can't convince me that a red hot area like Briarcliff needs TIF to make these things happen now.  They WANT IT but they sure as hell don't NEED IT.  The occupancy rate testifies to that.

And they claim that nothing like this would happen in Briarcliff without GIGAKOK-TIF XR2000. To suggest this about an economically thriving area is either entirely erroneous, or indicative that a hotel and office building probably don't belong there in any case.

Crooked crooked crooked.

[LenexatoKCMO]

To suggest this about an economically thriving area is either entirely erroneous, or indicative that a hotel and office building probably don't belong there in any case.

Either that or we have finally reached the zero hour where no development will ever happen anywhere, no matter how economically lucrative its promiss, unless it receives public subsidy.  Sadly this seems to be the direction developers are steering things. 

[GRID]

Yeah they are looking to get a load more TIF for more retail and a hotel.  That is why people are up in arms.  Brirarcliff is way past the needing public support stage.  Plus the additional hotel rooms on the wrong side of the river seem pretty questionable. 

I see, yea, that development should have some good legs now to start paying taxes on any expansions.  I also didn't know it was a "super" tiff.  Those are nearly as aggressive as KS Star bonds and should only be used in the most deserving circumstances, ie, building a new mixed use development over bannister mall, H&R Bock HQ etc.

I like the Briarcliff development though and it's better than some of the tiffs that KCMO and other burbs hand out.

There is a new development in the works for 435 and 169.  It's HUGE HUGE HUGE and it will be tiffed too.  That's nuts.