KCRag Forum

earthling wrote:Remember that chef driven counter eats with 'store' near 2nd/Main about 15 years ago? It was very popular at first for lunch but RM didn't have the population base back then and it didn't make it. Something like that needs a second chance in RM area, a better balance of eats and market. Or Market3 maybe partners with a local chef that creates a buzz.

garrett's? http://kcrag.com/viewtopic.php?t=2279

^That's it. Was a great neighborhood hangout market. RM could use something like this again, every pedestrian-oriented neighborhood actually. If Market 3 partnered with a local chef they could potentially elevate it to this degree and perhaps eventually expand to other city core locations getting economies of scale along the way (replace w39th lost market, somewhere in Xroads, Valentine/Armour, Westport/Main, Plaza, etc).

KC can support the return of the neighborhood market but it needs to draw buzz as a place to hangout. A local chef involved, an old fashioned soda fountain bar, a killer bagel place with schmear cold case or something along those lines. Or all 3!

This is a small neighborhood market in NYC with a bagel bar and schmear cold case...


Old fashioned soda fountain bars that are part of a market or drugstore...

Hyvee to open a 8800 square foot store in Minneapolis. A good size for downtown KC, especially coupled with the coming distribution center able to keep a smaller store stocked.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/07/21/hy ... s-produce/

The West Des Moines, Iowa-based grocery chain is planning a super-sized convenience store and gas station in Lakeville, promising to offer time-strapped, on-the-go customers plenty of prepared meals and scaled-down versions of its typical produce, dairy and meat departments and Market Grill restaurant. A Starbucks coffee shop will be tucked in one corner of the store.

Where do you guys think is the best location for the next grocery store downtown?

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Yeah Xroads seems next logical area for a small neighborhood market that creates an environment as a place to hangout per the posts above. Gilham is growing at enough pace to support a similar neighborhood hangout market.

Consentino's does a good job filling the broader needs like meat/seafood counter, which smaller markets don't necessarily need to have. A Trader Joe's anywhere along streetcar line would be a great specialty store to have but another chain grocery like Hyvee otherwise may be redundant. When downtown hits 40K+ then might be different deal.

earthling wrote: Consentino's does a good job filling the broader needs like meat/seafood counter, which smaller markets don't necessarily need to have. A Trader Joe's anywhere along streetcar line would be a great specialty store to have but another chain grocery like Hyvee otherwise may be redundant. When downtown hits 40K+ then might be different deal.

The market hasn't even begun to serve downtown. There's room for three more stores within a downtown.

The northland Clay/Platte combined has 330k people.
I count no less than 36 grocery stores or super stores with groceries, but without CVS/Walgreens in the mix so my number is low. That's a functional store with for each 9,000 people.

There should be 30+ full sized (adjust numbers for smaller sizes) grocery stores in KCMO south of the river at that standard or somewhere around one for every 5 square miles of land at the smallest number. I don't need to look to know we're nowhere near that number.

They're not all going to be new hyvee sized necessarily but I bet there's room for another 1.0-1.5 million square feet of grocery space south of the river.
The project at 31st/Troost has only scratched the surface.

Good point but a smaller market per downtown district (size of Market 3) is more ideal than say 2-3 largish ones for entire downtown. The ideal urban neighborhood has a small market to walk to with a major one within larger area (and there already is one along streetcar line). But at some point 2 largish could make sense for downtown.

Traditionally in older pedestrian oriented cities, every single neighborhood has/had a small corner market. In larger cities like Chicago/NYC, the number one amenity most people look for (wanting to live in an urban neighborhood) is a small market they easily can walk/bike to in a couple minutes. River Market is well covered. Central Loop is covered. Xroads could use one and so could Gilham at this point. Then other districts as they dense up.

OTOH the delivery economy also might weaken desire for market in every hood. Would think downtowners would want broader range of retail over more markets, especially those who already have one to walk to.

Walked by the old Zaina spot today that is supposed to become a Pickleman's (12th/Walnut). That has been taking forever. Am hoping they give up. Downtown Loop could use more ethnic eats like counter Indian.

We're coming up on two years in February since Zaina was forced to move.

Who knew that slightly renovating a small restaurant space to become another restaurant was so difficult?

earthling wrote:Walked by the old Zaina spot today that is supposed to become a Pickleman's (12th/Walnut). That has been taking forever. Am hoping they give up. Downtown Loop could use more ethnic eats like counter Indian.

Honestly, just something better than Pickleman's. It really just isn't very good. Give me a Panera if we must have something in that vein.

Agree that a Panera would be better than Pickleman's in that spot, though there is a Panera in CC. Something like Indian would be good given there isn't much variety in downtown loop for convention/office people looking for something more adventurous. RM and Xroads have a good range but not the CBD Loop. Zaina (Mediterranean) moved further away from convention area. Indian has been a popular ethnic eats in general and then there's the growing base of Indians downtown, particularly IT workers. Indians account for the second highest foreign growth in KC (many moving into Armour renovations).

But agree most anything would be better. And why has it been nearly 2 years?

earthling wrote:
But agree most anything would be better. And why has it been nearly 2 years?

Where is Paul Harvey when we need him?

Curry in a hurry is in City Center Square's food court and is really good. They only do lunch.

i walk past old zaina 2-4x a day at all hours and haven't seen any sign of life since about the four month mark following the announcement. no lights on, no people walking by, no changes visible through the torn signs — nothing. i don't think it's ever going to open as a picklemans. i just don't understand why the space hasn't moved on to something else.

we have so many sandwich-y options for lunch in a 2 block radius of this spot. picklemans, panera, goodcents don't really add anything new. ethnic food would be good, and i think a five guys would kill it there.

Man, H&R Block’s cafeteria used to have awesome Indian food that was worth a walk to get! The man who made it left and I haven’t been back since.

kboish wrote:Curry in a hurry is in City Center Square's food court and is really good. They only do lunch.

Forgot about that but was thinking a half step notch above that, with slightly broader menu, Indian teas, 'filter coffee', good Indian bread (naan) and tandoori yogart dip or other various dips.

All of the above are places within corporate towers. Why downtown KC is missing (outside of P&L) is ground floor retail. Period.

^Agree. And for the most part downtown has eats covered with few exceptions. What retail outside food is desired? Many have been mentioned earlier in thread and downtown has gained many since then, except a bookstore. Is a bookstore still desirable? Broader clothing? General internal doctors? Are there enough dentists? Is there even a key duplication kiosk downtown?

What amenity is missing downtown at this point that requires a trip to the burbs or Midtown?

grecobs wrote:All of the above are places within corporate towers. Why downtown KC is missing (outside of P&L) is ground floor retail. Period.

There's two areas of easy gain.

There's a lot of buildings with these spaces being used for offices now. The old palace clothing company building (12th/Grand) has four entrances and what are clearly old display spaces on the Grand side. Across the street, the building the NAIA is in has four street entrances, so they could add three retail spaces to it. That's up to 7 small shops just on that intersection. Even two would be an improvement.

The other area is to convert part of the ground floor of under utilized garages into retail and requiring this for all new garages. We saw this with the bank going into the garage at 13th/Grand.

You can find it scattered around, Commerce has a couple of retail spaces in garages along Main for example, but it could be more or bigger.