OFFICIAL - Hotel President construction

[trailerkid]

Any word on what happened at the meeting today with Jury?

I'll be monitering all the local "news" stations this evening, but I am not expecting to hear what happened.

[scooterj]

There's an article about the President Hotel on the Star's web site today...

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascit ... 295688.htm


Looks to me like the opposition is primarily coming from established hotels that don't want the added competition, and from the fact that the city is subsidizing these hotels.

[KCDevin]

KC needs more hotels, the more hotels we have, the more events we can sponser. Like when the chiefs were playing, american royal going on, and the speedway races several weeks back. If we had more hotels, more money would have been made and more people would have had places to stay.

[KCPowercat]

the occupancy rate downtown sucks right now but you can't build for right now....with the expanding Bartle Hall and if you look at our convention center sq. ft. to walkable hotel rooms ratio and compare that to other cities, that shows KC needs more rooms not a bigger convention center (does that make any sense?)

[scooterj]

the occupancy rate downtown sucks right now but you can't build for right now....with the expanding Bartle Hall and if you look at our convention center sq. ft. to walkable hotel rooms ratio and compare that to other cities, that shows KC needs more rooms not a bigger convention center (does that make any sense?)

Bingo. Occupancy rates are low when there's no convention but when there is one, one of the biggest problems is that the attendees have to be bused in from the Plaza or the suburbs because the downtown hotels are full. With more hotel space, more conventions would be willing to choose KC and more conventions = more occupancy. And more occupancy means more people walking around downtown spending their money in the bars and restaurants and shops.

Come on, let the guy build his hotel. The President is such a cool-looking building and he's the only person who seems to be actually doing something in their neighborhood rather than conducting endless studies.

[eliphar17]

I was shadowing at City Hall again today and the first meeting of the day was the legislative review with the City Manager and department heads. Cauthen went through all of the usual stuff, which included a resolution to reaffirm the city's commitment to seeing something happen with the President Hotel. Cauthen then asked Kevin Riper, the Director of Finance, to give a brief summary of the President Hotel situation.

Riper said that Jury had gotten development rights for the whole block from the TIF Commission in Sept. '02, then had the rights for a full 12 months, when his private financing dried up. The TIF Commission took away rights for the whole block, leaving Jury with only the hotel. The city does not want to give him TIF money to convert it to a hotel because the other downtown hotels are already subsidized, and with a downtown occupancy rate of 53%, the city does not want to throw money at another hotel. Riper made note of the fact that the President Hotel would be opening just a couple of blocks away from another subsidized hotel that is losing $750K a year. (Maybe the Doubletree?)

Riper went on to say that Jury is considering converting the President to housing rather than a hotel, for which the city would be more likely to give TIF money. Cauthen said the city would have to pay $7-9M to demolish the President and is obviously reluctant to do so. (Jury needs $16M to renovate it.)

P.S. No context was given for the 53% occupancy rate. I don't know what exactly it means. It might be an annual average.

[mean]

I'm not an expert, but I did the night audit at a hotel in Independence (granted, not downtown) and 53% for downtown sounds about right. Part of my job was to call every major hotel from downtown to Blue Springs and ask them what their occupancy was. During the summer, pretty much everyone is at 100% or higher. For the rest of the year, though, it's always low unless a convention or something is in town.

KC needs more hotels, the more hotels we have, the more events we can sponser.

I don't agree. Most hotels are either losing money or barely turning a profit. People don't come to Kansas City, they drive through Kansas City on their way to somewhere else -- if they have to. There are a lot less people taking road trips in the non-summer months, and area hotels suffer through every "off season" for it. The convention business isn't bad, but it plus passthrough travelers won't keep enough hotels in business to provide rooms for all the conventioners unless we have major conventions frequently throughout the year. Not likely -- who wants to have a convention in KC November through March? The Sleet Lovers Association?

[FangKC]

I wouldn't mind seeing it turned into housing. With the Clubhouse Lofts, the TWA lofts, and the Power and Light apartments, housing in the President Hotel would bring a lot of residents into that neighborhood.

[KCPowercat]

TIF commission blasted Jury today.....turn that place into housing and let's move on.

[TheDude]

the 53% is an annual average and it would be STUPID to TIF another hotel project in downtown when current TIF'd hotels (Marriott, Muehlbach, Doubletree, Hotel Phillips) are barely making it. and the "build more rooms and we will get more visitors" is a pretty naive comment. why in the hell would anyone stay in a downtown hotel room unless you were forced to by some sadist corporate conference planner?

private management of Bartle will likely result in more conferences; remember we had to reinburse WalMart for their conference due to the ratty and trashy upkeep of bartle?

give a bum $50 and a gallon of gas to take care of that piece of shit Hotel President, then the city will be forced to deal with it....

[Czar]

KC needs more hotels, the more hotels we have, the more events we can sponser. Like when the chiefs were playing, american royal going on, and the speedway races several weeks back. If we had more hotels, more money would have been made and more people would have had places to stay.

Devin just needs more hotel rooms downtown for his dates with his hookers. The last thing he developed in downtown KC was a bad case of the clap.

With a little more than half the rooms full, in existing rooms, there is not enough demand to justify another corporate handout to greedy developers. Would you ask the City to pay for any expenses in your business if you came up short.

[FangKC]

Drove down Baltimore tonight and saw that the west wall of the Empire Theater (the one that has bricks falling off of it) has been repaired and stabilized. Yay!

[JBinKC]

Ron Jury had a great comment in the Star today regarding the weak argument that this project will canabalize the other downtown hotels...

“Everybody is looking at the marketplace today and not 18 months from now. If the sky is falling, why build an entertainment district?â€

[GRID]

I agree, instead the city will spend the next few years and the same amount of money to tie the thing up in court while the President sits there and rots away discouraging nearby development.

Do people realize that if everything planned gets built, that not only should the other downtown hotels bounce back, but the area will once again need more rooms to hold the conventions etc that the city so desperately needs.

I’m fine with saying no to a tiff on a project that will not work. But the city already said yes to Jury and even though he has had a tough time with financing, he also has spent a ton of personal time and money trying to make this happen, something very few KC developers do.

If this guy finally has the financing to make this happen, than the city should follow through with their original vote and let it happen, especially if it truly can happen quickly.

We don’t need yet another project all tied up in bullshit political crap, save the “saying no to tiffâ€

[QueSi2Opie]

Turn the damn President into housing! I don't want delays, I want the former hotel to be converted into apartments. At 53% occupancy level, why piss more peeps off by givin' money to another downtown hotel? If the entertainment district, PAC, an Arena, and the rest of the South Loop and downtown is booming in 2 years, maybe a hotel chain will build a nice 12-24 story hotel downtown. Hotel chains make decisions to construct new hotels based on a demand in a certain area. If downtown is the spot to be, then new hotels will be constructed from the ground up. For now, let's get the President renovated for the people who may be demanding more places to live downtown after the South Loop is revived.

I'm all for reopening the Drum Room too.

[mean]

It’s going to cost to fix our downtown, we still need to build the arena, the entertainment district, the bartle expansion, the arts center and more, all of which will be heavily subsidized. It will also cost the city a ton to bring in H&R Block, but if all this happens, then in ten years KC will finally be proud of it’s Downtown again and it will be worth every penny.

Being "proud of downtown again" will be good, but I just don't trust these people with money.

[dangerboy]

There's something else here not being said by City Hall (lofts envisioned for the President???).

Actually it has been said, and it isn't hard to piece together. The Sasaki Plan from the Downtown Council recommended levelling the President and putting a park in that location. It's no surprise that City Hall is following the wishes of the wealthy developers and land owners behind the Downtown Council. In this case, the people who want to tear down the President have more money and power than the people who want renovate it. Guess which side is likely to win....

[FangKC]

I seem to recall that the entertainment district plan included (at some point) a hotel that will have 1,000 rooms (or something like that). So it appears that this hotel development downtown goes forth depending on who the developer is. Obviously, the people that will gain by having a hotel in the entertainment district don't want the President turned into hotel rooms. However, it also seems idiotic to me to tear down one hotel--just to build another later.

The other issue here is one of architectural and historic significance. Why tear down a historic and architecturally-interesting hotel, and then build a new one that features cookie-cutter, banal design like the current Marriott and DoubleTree hotels. IMO, the President should remain--whether it be a hotel or apartments.

The other issue here is the assumption that a newly opened President Hotel will provide the same product as already-existing hotels. What appears not to be considered is that Hilton could develop a different market niche by turning parts of the hotel into an extended stay inn, or by providing a level of luxury that isn't available in other downtown hotels.

It could provide suites (instead of just ordinary rooms) that include a living room, dining area, small kitchen and separate bedrooms. The rooms could also have jacuzzi tubs and multi-spout showers. Each room could also have big screen flat-panel TV monitors (instead of ordinary 25-inch TVs) and complimentary in-suite computers with internet access. The rooms could be decorated with antiques and better works of art than what is usually in ordinary rooms. If this was done, it would provide a type of hotel experience not currently in the downtown market. It might draw in travelers or conventioneers who might not otherwise stay downtown. Downtown Kansas City doesn't have a luxury hotel like the Plaza Hotel, or Waldorf Astoria in New York City.

Ron Jury only lost his financing because of meddling by Andi Udris, and more powerful developers who own the Muehlebach, Marriott, and Phillips properties--and don't want any competition. Yet none of these hotels is offering the level of service like that aforementioned that I am describing. Jury had to go outside the city for financing because local banks were discouraged from loaning him money by local parties. The scuttlebutt I've heard is that one bank had already approved Jury's loan package, only to rescind it at the last minute because another, more powerful local developer intervened and asked them not to give the loan.

Now, that is the equivalent of having a rival restaurant down the street ask a bank not to loan your money to open a new restaurant. It would also be like a future neighbor putting the kabosh on your lending institution giving you a mortgage to buy the house next door to theirs.

[FangKC]

Kansas City's future will be imperiled if the city allows itself to be controlled by one element of the business community, or by one or two developers. Why? Because you need to have friction and competition in the marketplace of ideas to produce the best results.

One or two developers united against all others produces a vacuum. When only one party dominates the development scene, the city is at risk of having bad ideas carried out because there are no alternatives. The city has to go with what is offered--not what is needed.

When only one dominant force develops huge projects downtown, there is a risk of failure if the type of development they have planned is wrong or ill-conceived. It's much better to have several developers in competition with each other. When it's a one-horse town, that developer gets lazy and doesn't continue to try new things and makes changes when needed. Then people stop going there and move on to a better project.

Cordish Co. has become successful at taking over projects that other developers have built and that have failed because of poor planning, marketing, etc. There is huge risk in allowing one developer to build a huge project that includes blocks and blocks of downtown property. If that development is ill-conceived and it fails, you have one big white elephant on your hands.

Examples? In the mid-1970s, several of the main streets through downtown St. Joseph were converted into a pedestrian mall. The streets that remained were all made one way. Instead of fixing up the century-old structures in the neighborhood that had fallen on hard times, they were leveled and pocket parks replaced them.

The result was that downtown St. Joseph went downhill even faster than it had been. People stopped going there because there was no on-street parking and the one-way street plan was maddening. The remaining merchants that had been there for decades picked up and left. This massive redevelopment/urban renewal project put the last coffin nail in downtown St. Joseph. About 15 years later, the mall was ripped out. Oddly enough, the old vacant storefronts started filling up again without any redevelopment or TIF spending. The charming old buildings that remained were perfect for antique and crafts stores, and clubs.

Rockville, Maryland, demolished many of its old buildings in its downtown in the mid 1970s. The cleared land was replaced with one mammoth enclosed shopping mall (like in the suburbs) that had no windows and looked like a bunker. It covered blocks of downtown property. The mall was never successful. It remained in limbo for years, dragging the area down.

Finally, it was decided to tear the mall down. Rockville leaders offered it to Hollywood via ads in Variety as a building it could blow up for a Schwartzenegger-type action movie, but there were no takers. In 1995 (20 years later), the mall was demolished, giving downtown Rockville the charm and warmth of Dresden after the firebombing in World War II. A pall hangs over the vacant cavity where the mall stood, and the area has reverted back to acres of surface parking.

The lesson here is that open space--or badly conceived redevelopment--can turn out to be pretty awful, and that just as progress proceeds at glacial speed, it takes even longer to correct badly-conceived developments or megastructures in an old downtown.

It might be better if SoLo is divided up into quadrants and redevelopment is shared by three or four different entertainment district developers (like Cordish, Trammell Crow, Rouse Co). The City could establish the ground rules (architectural style, parking, building height, signage, landscaping) and then allow each developer to conceive their plan and pursue their tenants independently. That way each developer is more inclined to make their project better and more successful, and try different things. Like the old adage goes: "It's not wise to put all your eggs in one basket."

However, from what I've read, Cordish appears to be a very successful developer of entertainment districts, so that is encouraging at least. See the attached articles that appeared in the Louisville Business Journal.

http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louis ... tory1.html

http://louisville.bizjournals.com/louis ... ocus7.html

[KCPowercat]

Collison, KC Star development reporter, is throwing is support behind Jury. makes sense especially when you realize the city is going to have to put up about $11M (his numbers) to get Jury out of the building and demo it.