OFFICIAL - Main Street Streetcar Extension

[KCMax]

The set up at these workshops is about 45 minutes of slides and information, then about 45 minutes of small group discussion. At our table we had a few Brookside property owners who declined to name their business, but said the loss of spaces in that awkward little lot behind the Roasterie would be harmful to their business. They didn't seem thrilled with the street car in general and really weren't helpful to the discussion. Neither of them lived in KC proper by the way. One lived in OP, not sure the other. They left 3/4 of the way through when they realized 95% of the people in the workshop were very supportive.

One idea my table had was move the tennis courts over to the Border Star school asphalt area. There is plenty of room, it's not used for parking, it's just a massive asphalt lot for recess. No reason two tennis courts couldn't be placed there. Then a small garage, maybe one level underground, two levels above could be placed on the area where the courts are today.

My favorite idea however is to demolish that ugly ass blue building and replace that with parking.

In Waldo, there is a huge lot behind Dave Smith, One More Cup, etc. I'm told it's owned by the Keystone Church at 74th/Wornall (where our event was last night). But if the street car stays true to the right of way, then something could be worked out to use that lot for business parking. The church only uses it Sunday, and even then I've never in my 5 years of living a half block away seen it even half full. It would be more spaces than is currently available in the right of way by Tanners, Waldo Pizza, etc. And of course, there is a huge lot by CVS that I've never seen more than half full as well. Paint a line, and post signs that parking in front of the line is for CVS, Aldi, etc parking only, then behind the line can be used for the bars/shops along Wornall.

The CVS lot is the obvious answer. Its ginormous. My pipe dream would be to put the strip mall along Wornall, and hide the lot behind - or even make it parking garage with first floor retail. The huge lot just kills any pedestrian-friendliness goodwill built up north of 75th.

What's in that blue building? Isn't it just dentists and medical professionals? I'd love to see that go as well.

[smh]

The set up at these workshops is about 45 minutes of slides and information, then about 45 minutes of small group discussion. At our table we had a few Brookside property owners who declined to name their business, but said the loss of spaces in that awkward little lot behind the Roasterie would be harmful to their business. They didn't seem thrilled with the street car in general and really weren't helpful to the discussion. Neither of them lived in KC proper by the way. One lived in OP, not sure the other. They left 3/4 of the way through when they realized 95% of the people in the workshop were very supportive.

Sue part deux.

[DaveKCMO]

people would be more willing to park across the street from their destination in waldo if the streets were calmer. ADD ON-STREET PARKING FOR INSTANT SUCCESS.

[PumpkinStalker]

What's in that blue building? Isn't it just dentists and medical professionals? I'd love to see that go as well.

It's actually mostly residents. Independently living senior housing type thing. The lady that I bought my house from moved into it.

[aknowledgeableperson]

Isn't that building residential?

[DaveKCMO]

Isn't that building residential?

yes, and there are bigger fish to fry. it's well maintained and occupied.

[chrizow]

i kinda dig that big blue building. it's an interesting visual terminus coming southbound into BKS. it looks like the buildings you'd see on the outskirts of copenhagen or something. a large dash of modern in a sea of bourgie-tudor.

[pash]

.

[PumpkinStalker]

The blue building is full of old people, and nobody likes pitching granny out on the street. So it's not going anywhere, at least until everybody dies off. ...

The right-of-way could be vastly better utilized, streetcar or no. It really should have more buildings in it, particularly near the Brookside shops and in the heart of Waldo, where instead it is a vast parking lot. Along Wornall north of 75th there isn't even a sidewalk, just a guardrail abutting the street for two blocks, due to the drop-off from street level down to the parking in the right of way. That change in elevation would make it easy to put in underground parking, with entry from Broadway or 74th. Put an apartment building on top and you might have something there.

Elsewhere along the Trolley Track trail, my fantasy scenario would have earth-contact row houses and buildings given the Patrick Blanc treatment facing Brookside Blvd (and Wornall south of 63rd), with a streetcar track and jogging trail behind them. It's possible to keep and enhance the leafy suburban feel of the neighborhood and make it denser and more active at the same time.

But to return to reality, it should absolutely be possible to accommodate the parking needs of Brookside and Waldo businesses if the right-of-way is used for the streetcar or otherwise developed. There's plenty of space around. Better streetscaping, with marked crosswalks (and crossing signals that don't need to be activated by pedestrians!), would help people realize that it's both possible and socially acceptable to park a block away and walk to their destination. The case should be made, to bars and restaurants particularly, that trading some parking for a streetcar line would make it easier, not harder, for more customers to patronize local businesses.

I agree, and the demo of the blue building was tongue in cheek.

That's what the proponents at my table tried to better explain to the two property owners. It's wrong to assume that just because you're losing parking you will lose customers. Employees of the shops, and residents of the area need to support streetcar and trade driving for riding.

I also mentioned that during the 7 years I've volunteered at fan information booths during big 12 tournaments, it's amazing how many people come to downtown and don't have a car, expecting to be able to take transit. The majority are ok riding the Max when I pitch it and sell it. But they will be even more thrilled when they can hop on a street car and take it to Brookside/Waldo.

[DaveKCMO]

...and they don't have to lose parking. it just needs to be reallocated (or constructed). brookside and waldo both have CIDs, so they could easily manage garages that the city constructs.

[aknowledgeableperson]

ADD ON-STREET PARKING FOR INSTANT SUCCESS.

Don't Waldo and Brookside already have on-street parking?

[flyingember]

ADD ON-STREET PARKING FOR INSTANT SUCCESS.

Don't Waldo and Brookside already have on-street parking?

depends on the exact area, but yes, there is, I don't get to waldo much and I've used on street parking on wornall more than once

Waldo is a weird mix of very urban and very surban side by side. as this is the suburbs I'm not surprised which could make it a good model for a suburban line elsewhere in the city, like N. Oak or Metcalf

[DaveKCMO]

ADD ON-STREET PARKING FOR INSTANT SUCCESS.

Don't Waldo and Brookside already have on-street parking?

there are enough curb spots that are rush-hour-only or No Parking to replace whatever would be displaced in those small lots that are sitting on the CCROW. traffic engineers have prioritized traffic flow over supporting businesses and protecting pedestrians.

[flyingember]

So I thought of another thing that has relevance to these segments maybe being more light-rail focused with fewer stops

rode houston metrorail last saturday visiting family. houston shows why residential will drive the line but why tourism matters too

good use on a Saturday mid-day. except for in their downtown. the downtown stops were very, very, very empty. the bulk of the people getting on used the stop in their museum district to head away from downtown. the vehicle use at least doubled in number right there.

on Sunday the zoo was so packed there was zero free parking spots, the train stops were largely deserted. the train gets ~2 blocks from an entrance. part of the problem may have been frequency. they drop to every 20 on Sunday, which is hideously infrequent. hard to plan around and quicker to just drive there than to wait

their line was designed to hit tourist spots as much as for jobs. the expansion is very jobs-centric but their line makes turns and jogs to hit every major tourist spot they could.

they actually turned off of the straight and simple path that had a nearly perfect straight shot and weekend ridership was clearly helped by it. it didn't hurt jobs use because they double the train size for peak periods

what does this mean for KC? make those turns to increase the existing opportunities the line provides. all of them? not necessarily, find the ones where current parking is a limitation. Westport has good coverage without a turn but the Nelson doesn't. It could double in daily use without the need to expand their garage. going into UMKC versus the outskirts is another potential one

[aknowledgeableperson]

there are enough curb spots that are rush-hour-only or No Parking to replace whatever would be displaced in those small lots that are sitting on the CCROW. traffic engineers have prioritized traffic flow over supporting businesses and protecting pedestrians.

Granted it has been some time since I have been in the areas but by memory both neighborhoods have plenty of on-street parking, which is usually close to full most of the day. The one business that would have the biggest problem would be Sutherland's. The one thing many would want to avoid is to have the on-street parking overflow into the residential portion of the neighborhoods.

[lock+load]

The ROW parking in Brookside and Waldo it a PITA to navigate anyway. Would be an improvement to replace it with a garage.

[PumpkinStalker]

I'm not sure how much space a stop would take up if it had to stop right in the parking lot that is in the ROW. But, one small idea is to make Brookside Plaza a one way and angle parking which would give you more than the parallel that is there now.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=The+Roas ... 5,,0,-5.93

[flyingember]

you know, parking don't have to be above ground. we keep thinking about losing parking and trying to think in 2D. there's a MAJOR parking garage near the loop in Chicago that's below ground around Jackson and Michigan. the big impact to this idea is utility placement and if it allows major digging and the geology of the area

it might be possible to get close to the same number of spots by putting a garage under the area of the brookside tennis courts

could possibly do a larger below ground garage at 75th and Wornall where there's a large lot and more parking in the row

costly, yes. but worth putting on the table. A TDD for select areas that funds transit service + shared parking could be the kind of thing that drives transit forward

[PumpkinStalker]

you know, parking don't have to be above ground. we keep thinking about losing parking and trying to think in 2D. there's a MAJOR parking garage near the loop in Chicago that's below ground around Jackson and Michigan. the big impact to this idea is utility placement and if it allows major digging and the geology of the area

it might be possible to get close to the same number of spots by putting a garage under the area of the brookside tennis courts

could possibly do a larger below ground garage at 75th and Wornall where there's a large lot and more parking in the row

costly, yes. but worth putting on the table. A TDD for select areas that funds transit service + shared parking could be the kind of thing that drives transit forward

See this...

One idea my table had was move the tennis courts over to the Border Star school asphalt area. There is plenty of room, it's not used for parking, it's just a massive asphalt lot for recess. No reason two tennis courts couldn't be placed there. Then a small garage, maybe one level underground, two levels above could be placed on the area where the courts are today.

[chingon]

i kinda dig that big blue building. it's an interesting visual terminus coming southbound into BKS. it looks like the buildings you'd see on the outskirts of copenhagen or something. a large dash of modern in a sea of bourgie-tudor.

+1.

I also love its colloquial, casually racist neighborhood nickname (which I will not share).

It seems like a shame to propose a transit system and then immediately call for tearing down one of the 3 multifamily residential buildings on the line because its architecture is "dated"...