KCRag Forum

Downtown lacks neighborhood amenities more than eats but downtown outside City Market Sq could use some more reasonably priced counter eats (not meaning burger chains). True sub/deli shops (not chains), pizza-by-slice counters, street taco counters, non-Mexi wraps/salad counters (many on E Coast), wider variety of ethnic counter eats (like Zaina). OTOH, there are already probably a couple hundred places to eat within walking distance of streetcar line, including a few chains to appease the unadventurous. For a thread about missing downtown amenities, food/coffee is hardly in top 5 but there is some room for improvement on counter eats.

So yeah, ratio of sitdown restaurants is too high compared to cheap counter eats. There is a stretch of small retail spots across from Mark Twain building that used to have sidewalk counter eats (Mex/Sushi) that were killed when P&L opened - timing is now right for a return. Indoor food courts (like City Center Sq) are a no-no unless integrated into the sidewalk traffic.

earthling wrote:There is a stretch of small retail spots across from Mark Twain building that used to have sidewalk counter eats (Mex/Sushi) that were killed when P&L opened - timing is now right for a return. Indoor food courts (like City Center Sq) are a no-no unless integrated into the sidewalk traffic.

I think those places were shut down by a fire years before the P&L opened. I was working next door and remember walking by these empty storefronts in 2005/2006, back when T-Bob's was still in City Center Square. Danny Edwards was forced out by parking near the Sprint Center, and the Mango Room was in a bad location and couldn't survive waiting out the construction of the P&L, but I can't think of any restaurant that was forced out after the P&L opened, which I think shows how crappy the options were before it opened. The Mango Room's issue was more related to the number of people in the area for dinner, which was an early issue with the P&L also.

^Ah didn't catch the reasons but now with the foot traffic generated by streetcar, downtown is ready for the return of smallish sidewalk counter eats (not chains). They don't need much seating.

I worked downtown 2007-2014 and I can't think of any place that closed because of P&L that didn't deserve to be closed.
More the opposite.

I see the point about the small countertop space restaurant, something that can open for lunch 7 days a week and dinner Friday and Saturday and operate cheaply.

We just don't have the physical spaces for this yet but many projects are adding this kind of space. Walk the entire length of Main from 6th to 20th and you find almost nothing today. The model I remember in other cities is the office building entrance closes and the retail ones come straight off the street with great signage, and we don't have much of that downtown. City Center Square and Town Pavillion has a food court and both close outside lunch because it's shared entry. Is Commerce Arcade the same (I forget)? The crossroads spaces are relatively rare and the ones with first floor restaurants are doing very well.

I would hope more new buildings downtown add the classic separate entrance first floor space in their plans. So many of the basic needs downtown can be put in what amounts to a functional strip mall design in the ground floor of a building that can be subdivided easily.

flyingember wrote:City Center Square and Town Pavillion has a food court and both close outside lunch because it's shared entry. Is Commerce Arcade the same (I forget)? The crossroads spaces are relatively rare and the ones with first floor restaurants are doing very well.

I don't think anything else is open in the evening, but Charisse is open at night (and is often overlooked but a great place for dinner downtown). They keep the parking garage open for free, and you can enter from inside or from the street.

I think Charisse is just off the beat and path. I'm sure having the Hampton Inn just down the way should help them and Farmstead Cafe and once the Pickwick is completed and leased and the Embassy project is complete, should really help with bringing more restaurant and retail.

The Commerce arcade needs to put more signs up for what's inside. It's already easy to miss there's anything inside there let alone that something is open in the evening

Yeah, is why I mentioned indoor urban food courts don't work unless tied into pedestrian flow (or within an attraction that generates the flow)). Have seen some in large cities but probably difficult to pull off. The streetcar line is in itself a pedestrian traffic generator - more small sidewalk places needed, and pocked parks too with seating.

Since some were talking about countertop restaurants are there any that feature down home type of cooking? Such as chicken fried chicken, chicken fried steak, meatloaf, ham and beans, simple breakfasts. Nothing fancy, just something like your mom or grandmother would fix.

aknowledgeableperson wrote:Since some were talking about countertop restaurants are there any that feature down home type of cooking? Such as chicken fried chicken, chicken fried steak, meatloaf, ham and beans, simple breakfasts. Nothing fancy, just something like your mom or grandmother would fix.

City Diner and Cascone's are the only ones that come to mind. One of the incarnations of Woodswether Cafe in the Bottoms was pretty good. Someone reopened a restaurant there, but I think they're temporarily closed again. Not really downtown, though.

Homesteader is going for that type of cuisine. As is mixing bowl. Too many of those places already.

...not to mention the two Town Topics. I don't think you can really have too many downhome dinery spots, but as far as cuisine representation goes, downtown seems to have that one pretty well covered.

Not downtown, but Portia's Cafe is certainly doable for a downtown worker with a vehicle and it's pretty good. I mention it because AKP mentioned "like your mom or grandmother would fix" and when I have lunch there, Portia is usually my server and her grandma is the one making the food. So you can go have food that isn't just like [a] grandmother would fix, but literally have someone's grandma make your lunch.

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Definitely agree about McGonigles. They would be an amazing addition.

I really want a great, independent book store.

WoodDraw wrote:I really want a great, independent book store.

https://www.afterwordkc.com/

kboish wrote:

WoodDraw wrote:I really want a great, independent book store.

https://www.afterwordkc.com/

Ohh, I hadn't heard. Look forward to checking it out. Thank you

Re: McGonigles, this was sort of the original idea behind the Sundry. Small, local market.

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Remember that chef driven counter eats with 'store' near 2nd/Main about 15 years ago? It was very popular at first for lunch but RM didn't have the population base back then and it didn't make it. Something like that needs a second chance in RM area, a better balance of eats and market. Or Market3 maybe partners with a local chef that creates a buzz.