Is the P&L District underwhelming? 100% serious question

[KCPowercat]

Not meeting projections is more on who made those projections.....and still well worth it considering what is bringing to KC, even not at full potential.

[KCPowercat]

Still waiting on the criteria for success for those who are disappointed.

[trailerkid]

P&L Just needs more stuff NEAR IT.  

totally co-sign with this. that hotel needs to go up and it needs to go up yesterday.

if you look at the way the Plaza works with the Nelson-Atkins...there is some synergy there. you have a major, regional attraction right next to another major regional attraction. right now we don't have any major, regional attractions downtown that function day in and day out. PAC, Music Hall, Bartle, Sprint Center, Midland, even AMC are things that shine only at select times. If KC had a destination sculpture park downtown (sorta like what StL did) coupled with a large, contemporary art center that'd be a very nice complement to the existing amenities in the CBD. KCMO should've really went after that Nerman collection at JCCC and even partnered with JCCC to deliver it. That would've been perfect sitting somewhere along Grand.

i don't like the aquarium idea, but i'd be all for it happening if it helps downtown. Union Station plays a role in all this because it's supposed to be our "cultural center" but it provides little spin-off outside of Crown Center. what about turning the Lyric into some sort of history museum or cultural center once the PAC is completed.

not enough people visit the CBE. that's probably my favorite attraction in the CBD and it works well with all ages.

[chrizow]

Still waiting on the criteria for success for those who are disappointed.

the pivotal criteria for success is:  can the P+L successfully lure chrizow and lenexatokcmo? 

[beautyfromashes]

the pivotal criteria for success is:  can the P+L successfully lure chrizow and lenexatokcmo? 

Who gives a fuck about those guys?!?!

[mean]

Still waiting on the criteria for success for those who are disappointed.

Nobody said it was a failure, so I can't comment on what would make it an overall success. It has succeeded at a lot of stuff, although not at dining.

Assuming you mean what would make the dining scene a success, personally all I want is for just one of the restaurants to be good enough that I would want to eat there regularly. Just ONE of them be good enough to drive significant traffic in from Blue Springs and Grain Valley and Olathe on a Tuesday when there isn't some kind of event. I would be happy enough with that. That's what I thought we'd be getting. I, apparently foolishly, believed we might even get a couple. Shame on me.

[chrizow]

Assuming you mean what would make the dining scene a success, personally all I want is for just one of the restaurants to be good enough that I would want to eat there regularly. Just ONE of them be good enough to drive significant traffic in from Blue Springs and Grain Valley and Olathe on a Tuesday when there isn't some kind of event.

i'd be curious to know what restaurant would both draw you and the grain valley/olathe contingent.   

[trailerkid]

Still waiting on the criteria for success for those who are disappointed.

retail like Apple, kate spade, Z Gallerie, Urban Outfitters, etc.

restaurants like The Capital Grille, Fogo, & Lidia's along with local stuff in the same class as WC&B, Glace, La Bodega, Blanc.

no restaurants run by Cordish-- only nightclubs.

^^^ P&L would be a lot busier had they delivered stuff like this.

[KCPowercat]

Never will be hip enough for those over the hill party guys.

[trailerkid]

....and still well worth it considering what is bringing to KC, even not at full potential.

no one is arguing against this. stop making it the crux of every argument: "well it's better than surface parking lots!" REALLY?!?!

[KCPowercat]

Tk.....so you want another plaza?  Hmmm.

Mean....I guess I'm asking what would make it more acceptable to more KC residents. Right now......lot of blind hate.

Who has been to the retail? 

[mudjack]

retail like Apple, kate spade, Z Gallerie, Urban Outfitters, etc.

restaurants like The Capital Grille, Fogo, & Lidia's along with local stuff in the same class as WC&B, Glace, La Bodega, Blanc.

no restaurants run by Cordish-- only nightclubs.

^^^ P&L would be a lot busier had they delivered stuff like this.

Z Gallerie? I'll admit they have a pretty good poster section, but some of their other stuff is so tacky it's embarrassing.

I like glace, but I would think it would be too bourgeois to suit your tastes.

[trailerkid]

i'd be curious to know what restaurant would both draw you and the grain valley/olathe contingent.   :lol: 

OK Joe's.

[chrizow]

OK Joe's.

got it in one...

[beautyfromashes]

retail like Apple, kate spade, Z Gallerie, Urban Outfitters, etc.

restaurants like The Capital Grille, Fogo, & Lidia's along with local stuff in the same class as WC&B, Glace, La Bodega, Blanc.

no restaurants run by Cordish-- only nightclubs.

^^^ P&L would be a lot busier had they delivered stuff like this.

So, you want the Plaza and established in less than 2 years.  Hmmmm.

[KCPowercat]

Who said that tk?  I said right now, what it is, is worth the shortfalls and hits to the budget you described. Reforming my comments so you can refute them isn't working.

[trailerkid]

Tk.....so you want another plaza?  Hmmm.

In terms of destination status? Yes. The types of retail/restaurants that make the Plaza as destination are ALSO found in most successful and vibrant downtown areas (Pearl in PDX, Downtown Seattle, River North Chicago).

[KCMax]

retail like Apple, kate spade, Z Gallerie, Urban Outfitters, etc.

restaurants like The Capital Grille, Fogo, & Lidia's along with local stuff in the same class as WC&B, Glace, La Bodega, Blanc.

no restaurants run by Cordish-- only nightclubs.

^^^ P&L would be a lot busier had they delivered stuff like this.

I lean towards agreeing with you, but can you provide an example of something like this being done in another city that lived up to this kind of expectation? I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I just would like some sort of point of comparison I guess, if you know of one.

Nobody said it was a failure, so I can't comment on what would make it an overall success. It has succeeded at a lot of stuff, although not at dining.

Assuming you mean what would make the dining scene a success, personally all I want is for just one of the restaurants to be good enough that I would want to eat there regularly. Just ONE of them be good enough to drive significant traffic in from Blue Springs and Grain Valley and Olathe on a Tuesday when there isn't some kind of event. I would be happy enough with that. That's what I thought we'd be getting. I, apparently foolishly, believed we might even get a couple. Shame on me.

In fairness, I think Bristol lives up to this - although they also have a suburban location, which reduces the draw obviously.

[trailerkid]

So, you want the Plaza and established in less than 2 years.  Hmmmm.

The Plaza was established in less than 2 years. It's a shopping center built by a singular developer-- just like P&L.

[chrizow]

In terms of destination status? Yes. The types of retail/restaurants that make the Plaza as destination are ALSO found in most successful and vibrant downtown areas (Pearl in PDX, Downtown Seattle, River North Chicago).

and with the plaza shitting the bed lately with mall-quality retail, the P+L would seem to have a unique opportunity to one-up the plaza in terms of retail.  unfortunately, so far we have retail options that are outpaced by the prairie village shops and summit fair...