Bannister Mall/Cerner

[aknowledgeableperson]

Depending on how the TIF is drawn up it may or may not affect property taxes, sales taxes, e-taxes, and so on. A regular TIF may capture up to 50% of all of the "additional" taxes the project generates. A Super TIF may capture up to 100% of all of the "additional" taxes the project generates.

I believe that is a simple and accurate summation of TIF and Super TIF.

[Stockton]

Being close to their daycare and school is important to them, and an extra 10 minutes often means having to pay more for extra time at daycare if they are running late. So those few extra minutes makes a difference to them. If the school district is as good as any in Johnson County, KS, like parts of KCMO in the Lee's Summit school district, they will more than likely choose to live closer to work.

... or they'll just move to Lee's Summit. It's just as quick to get to any part of LS as it is to get to the parts of KC that have LS schools.

District map: http://www.leesummit.k12.mo.us/pdf/maps ... p09-10.pdf

Cool map. It looks like Lee's Summit needs to make like Independence and get the slivers of their city in the lesser school districts out of them and in the Lee's Summit district. It would be nice if KCMO could so something similar, too, for all of the land east of Raytown. As much as possible should be done to encourage to development to fill in those leapfrogged areas that are closer into the city.

Overall, this proposed development and up to 15,000 jobs looks like it has the potential to really transform South Kansas City, especially combined with a major retail center. Many young people brought to KC by Cerner may want to live between the urban core attractions and their work, and it would be cool if this development could really help transform inner city neighborhoods south of Brush Creek, like the Troost corridor, Paseo, and Blue Hills.

[shinatoo]

Being close to their daycare and school is important to them, and an extra 10 minutes often means having to pay more for extra time at daycare if they are running late. So those few extra minutes makes a difference to them. If the school district is as good as any in Johnson County, KS, like parts of KCMO in the Lee's Summit school district, they will more than likely choose to live closer to work.

... or they'll just move to Lee's Summit. It's just as quick to get to any part of LS as it is to get to the parts of KC that have LS schools.

District map: http://www.leesummit.k12.mo.us/pdf/maps ... p09-10.pdf

Cool map. It looks like Lee's Summit needs to make like Independence and get the slivers of their city in the lesser school districts out of them and in the Lee's Summit district. It would be nice if KCMO could so something similar, too, for all of the land east of Raytown. As much as possible should be done to encourage to development to fill in those leapfrogged areas that are closer into the city.

Most of Noland Road is in the Raytown school District, except for the area just north of Bannister road. Raytwon just built a new elementary school on Noland at 67th and will be building a new Middle school there soon.

Not much of the City of Lees Summit outside of Lee's Summit Schools. Half of Lakewood and some areas in the rural east, but for the most part Lee's Summit Schools overlap other municipalities.

[Stockton]

^I just studied the map. I'm not familiar with the pieces of Lee's Summit not inside the LS district, but it's better the land be prime for development than not, which the difference in school districts obviously has a huge impact on. I know that most of the Noland corridor is in the Raytown district. If it were up to me, I'd change that and it would be in the Lee's Summit district. What I was most surprised by in looking at the school district boundaries over that way is that much or most of Lakewood is in the Blue Springs district.

There's a good school district boundary map on this page showing all districts. You have to click "district" under boundaries for it to work.

http://www.schooldigger.com/go/MO/city/ ... earch.aspx

I would say with the potential 15,000 jobs and a major retail center, it would be nice to see the revenue generated somehow distributed evenly between the four lesser districts that converge in the area and need help, but after thinkng about it a bit I think it's the Hickman Mills district that's the most devoid and in need of help.

[shinatoo]

What has the Cerner Campus done for the adjoining neighborhoods in NKC? I'm assuming we can expect the same in SKC. The adjoining commuter rail line is a more interesting facet.

[Stockton]

How many people work at the NKC campus? I know it's nowhere near 15,000. NKC isn't a devoid place to begin with, not like SE KCMO is, but I'm sure Cerner has a positive impact. I think Cerner's impact will be great for KCK too, despite the location.

[shinatoo]

How many people work at the NKC campus? I know it's nowhere near 15,000. NKC isn't a devoid place to begin with, not like SE KCMO is, but I'm sure Cerner has a positive impact. I think Cerner's impact will be great for KCK too, despite the location.

I wasn't putting any value on it, because I really don't know. At minimum I would assume it keeps the surrounding neighborhoods stable.

[Stockton]

Stablization, in the least, is what SKC needs. I would hope the new campus should at least have that impact.

With potential future development at the Bannister Federal Complex in coming years, and whatever development has been proposed in an are north of the Bannister site, which I can't remember what that is or how realistic it might be, SKC may be on a roll in coming years.

[shinatoo]

Better school district maps
Hickman
http://missouri.hometownlocator.com/sch ... 066952.cfm

Center
http://missouri.hometownlocator.com/sch ... 065324.cfm

Grandview
http://missouri.hometownlocator.com/sch ... 065340.cfm

Raytown
http://missouri.hometownlocator.com/sch ... 065989.cfm

[earthling]

Two other nearby proposed projects that may get momentum along with Cerner are Stowers expansion and Oxford on the Blue biotech park at 87th, which aspires to be another Corporate Woods. I hope one or all them do something along the lines of new urbanism or other form of dense development. Austin has one called The Domain, which still feels very fabricated but is better than other new urbanism developments I've seen and far better than a sprawling non-mixed use Corporate Woods. Would allow Oxford project to offer a different kind of product than rest of suburbs.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/b ... l?page=all

Just south of the Cerner Innovation campus, near Interstate 470 and Blue Ridge Boulevard, lies a large development tract assembled in 2007 and 2008 by a partnership with ties to the Stowers Institute for Medical Research.

North of the innovation campus, the son of Stowers Institute founder Jim Stowers Jr. is now preparing to launch a 350-acre development called Oxford on the Blue. Located between U.S. Highway 71 and I-435 just north of 87th Street, the project's master plan reveals a mix of biotech research and office development, residential uses and neighborhood retail outlets.

Whitney Kerr Sr., who helped Jim Stowers III assemble the land for the development, has said he envisions a 1,500- to 1,800-acre life sciences corridor stretching north from the former Marion Laboratories campus to Oxford on the Blue.

[earthling]

Found this concept plan for Oxford on the Blue at 87th....
http://www.oxfordontheblue.com/document ... -Board.pdf

[Pork Chop]

Found this concept plan for Oxford on the Blue at 87th....
http://www.oxfordontheblue.com/document ... -Board.pdf

Nice find and by the looks of it, the developers are tending toward a traditional/New Urbanist design for the residential/retail/community component.

[earthling]

Not a typical office park but still kind of spread out, not conducive to enticing foot traffic. Would rather see something nearly as dense as The Domain in Austin but maybe less retail focus and mixed in with the wooded area to give it more greenspace at a pedestrian scale...

The Domain is a redevelopment of the 175-acre former IBM manufacturing campus, a transit-oriented, mixed-use development that will include 3,500,000 SF of office space, 1,000,000 SF of retail space, 6,000 multifamily units and 500 hotel keys.

Is much better mix use than Zona Rosa...
https://www.google.com/search?q=the%20d ... 9gSW-YGQAw

[Pork Chop]

Not a typical office park but still kind of spread out, not conducive to enticing foot traffic. Would rather see something nearly as dense as The Domain in Austin but maybe less retail focus and mixed in with the wooded area to give it more greenspace at a pedestrian scale...

The Domain is a redevelopment of the 175-acre former IBM manufacturing campus, a transit-oriented, mixed-use development that will include 3,500,000 SF of office space, 1,000,000 SF of retail space, 6,000 multifamily units and 500 hotel keys.

Is much better mix use than Zona Rosa...
https://www.google.com/search?q=the%20d ... 9gSW-YGQAw

Even better

[FangKC]

The Oxford on the Blue development looks neat. I like the central village concept, and it appears in some of the images to be pedestrian in its' center, and a nice scale building-wise.

[longviewmo]

I like the plan so far. Everything outside the center doesn't say concept as much as it says "we're going to sell this land, so whatever goes here goes in this general area."

[FangKC]

I wish we could redevelop the West Paseo/Jazz Hill neighborhood north of I-70 between Paseo and the I-35 east loop in a development model similar to The Domain area of Austin.

Or this neighborhood in Dallas.

Zoom in and do Google Streetview to see individual buildings.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Klyde+Wa ... s,+TX&z=16

[earthling]

^I've been to The Domain a couple times (IBM shindig) and many other new urbanism sites across the country. The Domain feels very fabricated partly because everything is built at one time by seemingly one developer but it 'felt' far better than others I've seen, reasonably close to a modern CC Plaza. Zona Rosa didn't do enough residential/office mixed in to be called mixed use and then totally blew it when adding pad site restaurants. There's a couple in LA that are scary fake LALA-land when actually visiting - The Grove and other one in Glendale/Pasadena area, can't remember name. I couldn't wait to get out of those, worse than touristy feeling of P&L.

If they can use the woods as natural green space mixed in, should help. Use of vines on buildings also takes away from the fabricated look. I noticed P&L is growing vines on some buildings and I think it helps take away the monotony of same era buildings grouped together.

[FangKC]

In reality, if your look at development historically, many areas of cities were created all at once in a short span. Most of Delaware St. through the River Market was built at the same time, so many of the buildings are from the same era. The historic parts of the River Market went through three major development cycles where blocks of buildings were built and then replaced. 1830-1860, 1860-1890, 1890-1920. North of 3rd Street has had three cycles of historic buildings. The frontier era brought the first wood buildings and houses. The post-frontier era replaced those with 3-4-story brick retail buildings, and then the industrial era saw those torn down and replaced them with brick warehouse buildings that remain today.

Many parts of downtown KC were built during the same period originally, and share many similar architectural styles and materials. Most of historic downtown between 6th and 14th streets was built between 1880 and 1914 (a 35-year-period) in the first development cycle. The variety on our downtown and River Market only began when following building cycles demolished and replaced buildings.

The real difference is that blocks constructed in earlier cycles were separated more on each block, built individually, and designed by different architects or builders.

Modern developments from scratch usually construct one large building on each block instead of many separate ones, and they are designed by the same architect. The other thing is several blocks might be designed by the same architecture firm, and that often accounts for the "fabricated" feel of the neighborhood.

The mistake a lot of developers make is not supplanting enough variety in styles, materials, and even colors, in these new urbanist developments. Choosing several architecture firms might provide that variety. J.C. Nichols developed many residential neighborhoods in the central Metro, but his neighborhoods provided a large variety of housing sizes and styles. It wasn't cookie cutter. He didn't put the same house side-by-side.

The Plaza was fairly consistent when it was originally built. But today's Plaza is not the Plaza of yesterday. There have been some modifications to buildings, and demolish-and-replace cycles that have added some variety, but still adhering to an aesthetic. I think the block that Barnes and Nobles is on has had three sets of buildings on it. The first were colonnade apartments. The second was a lower-rise retail building, and the third was what we see today.

We live in our time, and that means most development on raw sites is done at once by the same developer and architecture firm.

[pash]

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