Status and future of the River Market area??

[trailerkid]

TK......... I have been a vocal advocate for change in the city market for a bunch of years.  When CWB took over the market two years ago the market was buried in debt, had huge deferred maintenance and the existing tenants and city staff were beat up and depressed. 

Man, the details are everything.  The debt is now gone, while at the same time managing money in such a way as to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to upgrade tenant doors, signage, heating, trash removal and handling (big one for loft tenants on Delaware)  instituting 24 hour live security, etc.... 

With regard to new tenants, the city has shown that they want unique local tenants.  They are not turning away viable tenants and they have been open to short term uses.

I have complained a lot about the market over the years and they are far from perfect.  They are making progress, though and it is everywhere to be seen.  Again, this is as result of the staff that is running things now.  They are working on a shoestring and they are doing incredible things.

TK, you seem to have a bone to pick with CWB.  I have no special love for them but I have watched what they've done closely, and they deserve praise.  I'm coming from an informed vantage point.  Where are you coming from?

Agreed on the infrastructure upgrades. No problem saying that it's good the Market is getting back on track in terms of deferred maintenance. However, the bread and butter of the Market is a destination attraction that brings in people from the urban core and beyond. There is no remarkable difference now in terms of an outsider (you're obviously on the insider end which is great) perspective. Painting and fixing doors isn't anything that will impress tourists or whoever-- tenant mix and experience will. Has the overall experience enhanced over the last 2, 5, 10 years? I know I personally don't see any major enhancements and CM is nowhere near its potential level of performance.

[loftguy]

Agreed on the infrastructure upgrades. No problem saying that it's good the Market is getting back on track in terms of deferred maintenance. However, the bread and butter of the Market is a destination attraction that brings in people from the urban core and beyond. There is no remarkable difference now in terms of an outsider (you're obviously on the insider end which is great) perspective. Painting and fixing doors isn't anything that will impress tourists or whoever-- tenant mix and experience will. Has the overall experience enhanced over the last 2, 5, 10 years? I know I personally don't see any major enhancements and CM is nowhere near its potential level of performance.

TK, you are absolutely right that the market is below potential.  The market is nowhere near where it could be.  I don't know how to fix it, though.  The City Mkt is striving to add to the mix and heighten the experience, but where are the jugglers, sword-swallowers, convenience store operators, sea-food sellers, bakery, etc.....  The lack of entrepeneurial presence is frustrating. 

[advocrat]

TK, you are absolutely right that the market is below potential.  The market is nowhere near where it could be.  I don't know how to fix it, though.  The City Mkt is striving to add to the mix and heighten the experience, but where are the jugglers, sword-swallowers, convenience store operators, sea-food sellers, bakery, etc.....  The lack of entrepeneurial presence is frustrating. 

Loftguy,

I'm using your message to quote in order to make general comments on the River Market/City Market that has been the subject of recent posts.

I wonder to what level we must exercise a little patience: this year may be something of a watershed for all of downtown.  Last year at this time the arena was a circular impression on the lot, and P&L had a concrete slab with a 2001 monolith structure in the middle of it. The President Hotel had just reopened, the Crossroads Bridges had just been delivered to the Freighthouse District and so on. KC is really under construction and some things can't progress very far until other things get done. I remember the developer of the Hilton President saying that the hotel would have to weather the construction period before it was going to be able to take off and realize its potential. Bartle expansion is underway, Performing Arts Center construction has begun, and major arterials and bridges are being re-built.

That being said, the River Market though somewhat removed from this activity, is still affected. There are a lot of folks who have taken up residency there in recent years. The growth from just a few, to more, and in the near future very many is happening as we speak. I marvel at the number of recent changes/additions to River Market, and I'm not sure if we are appreciating this change. In years past there have been a fair amount of evening events and weekend activities in River Market, including concerts. And these occured when the Market was less developed than it is now.  I am greedily anxious for more, but I'm ignorant about the totality of what is going on, what the management company is doing. Will the recent changes induce more entrepreneurs to move there? It could be there is a lot of things in the offing this year, or there might not be anything. I think there are probably some important improvements about to take off, especially with the 2nd Street Redevelopment. Seems like all of this could have a positive effect on the City Market and River Market.

My fingers are crossed, and I'm waiting to see.

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

The River Market is underperforming right now not in terms of Good Charlotte concerts, but underperforming as an actual neighborhood.  Why hasn't the residential boom increased everyday street activity and simple investment in the community business?  All boutiques, no services. 

[trailerkid]

City Market needs to turn into something of an attraction that brings loads of people in every day. I like the idea of bringing in an aquarium concept as an anchor, however, that could make the offerings at the city market more sterile as such an attraction could price out many surrounding businesses.

Ideally, the Market should just slowly build its retail/restaurant offerings in a very savvy and deliberate way. It's well worth offering a sweetheart deal on rent to land something that brings instant credibility like Stroud's or Music Exchange.

BTW, I don't think the retail or restaurants just start lining up at your door...there's a lot of footwork involved in securing them and building from that.

Here's a few ideas for potential tenants or tenant types...

-Magic/Game Shop (lots of demos done in front of the store to draw interest)
-Stroud's (great idea...@ entrance to the market...think of the foot traffic it would create around the neighborhood  )
-Large, smelly record store (Music Exchange!?!...maybe Prospero's could provide management assistance?)
-Hookah bar (obviously a niche operation, but something that could prove to be a destination)
-Local, artisan, bread bakery
-Comic/anime store (The buying power of geeks is way underrated)

Additionally, the Market could use many more small, ethnic markets (Euro, Asian, Mexican, etc.) as well as gift/antique stores . These could go from full scale operations to simple, "crawl space" storefronts.

All boutiques, no services. 

Where are the boutiques? I don't see them...unless you count that NY fashion t-shirt shop. Further, I don't think it's the role of the City Market proper to act as a neighborhood convenience center. Corner shops and other storefronts can fill the needs of the neighborhood, although there still isn't a large enough population there to support many services.

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I don't think it's the role of the City Market proper to act as a neighborhood convenience center. Corner shops and other storefronts can fill the needs of the neighborhood, although there still isn't a large enough population there to support many services.

I agree with you but I don't see why something like a Wild Oats or Green Acres wouldn't work. There seems to be a growing demand for organic foods. It wouldn't necasarily be a destination because there are few all over town, but it would definitely do well on Saturdays and Sundays because it would provide things that the Farmers don't and would fit the niche that a regular grocery store doesn't fill. I also think it would be a hit with the residents to keep it busy during the week.

[trailerkid]

I agree with you but I don't see why something like a Wild Oats or Green Acres wouldn't work. There seems to be a growing demand for organic foods. It wouldn't necasarily be a destination because there are few all over town, but it would definitely do well on Saturdays and Sundays because it would provide things that the Farmers don't and would fit the niche that a regular grocery store doesn't fill. I also think it would be a hit with the residents to keep it busy during the week.

I think Green Acres would work, but I don't think it's the best idea for the City Market. The City Market should offer an overwhelming mix of produce, dry goods, oils, spices, etc. that trump all offerings at Green Acres or anywhere else within an 8 hour drive. Putting a traditional Green Acres in the City Market is basically admitting the Market concept is dead. I'd rather see more merchants enter the Market who offer everything found at Green Acres plus a lot more (home wares, herbs, organics, vitamins, locally grown, etc.).

[TheBigChuckbowski]

I think Green Acres would work, but I don't think it's the best idea for the City Market. The City Market should offer an overwhelming mix of produce, dry goods, oils, spices, etc. that trump all offerings at Green Acres or anywhere else within an 8 hour drive. Putting a traditional Green Acres in the City Market is basically admitting the Market concept is dead. I'd rather see more merchants enter the Market who offer everything found at Green Acres plus a lot more (home wares, herbs, organics, vitamins, locally grown, etc.).

I know exactly what you mean but the City Market isn't the ideal situation right now and I think it would take 10-20 years for it to become what it should be. In the meantime, I don't see why a stripped down version of Green Acres wouldn't work.

[LenexatoKCMO]

If someone was actually going to put a small food store in the greater DT area - the xroads is screaming with demand more than anywhere else.  In the RM you can get foodstuffs at the market itself and at the asian markets.  In the loop you can get foodstuffs at the Osco or at the convenience stores on Grand or Broadway.  In midtown you have the stinkyfresh, wild oats, and Costco.  All we have in the xroads is the Valero gas station - and beside chicken livers, they don't have much. 

[advocrat]

Anybody know when construction is scheduled to begin on Riverbend?  Seems like it may have a catalytic effect on the River Market, and spur the completion of 2nd Street development, etc.

[loftguy]

Riverbend?  Do you mean the project on the KCS railyard?

The KCS development is expected to begin physical construction in August.

2nd Street development/completion is a separate issue.  It is due to begin in about 45 days and be completed prior to the end of the year.

[kc-vino]

I walk by the former cup and saucer space and it seems as if the rumored coffee shop to replace it has been put on the back burner for some reason.  Their has been the same chairs and equipment out for months with no work.  This is to bad because they were working rather diligently on this project until about a month and a half ago and then nothing.  Does anybody have any information on this project?

[staubio]

I know exactly what you mean but the City Market isn't the ideal situation right now and I think it would take 10-20 years for it to become what it should be. In the meantime, I don't see why a stripped down version of Green Acres wouldn't work.

10-20 years for it to be an ideal solution for produce and cooking supplies?  What would you change?  Some of the vendors are open every day, some late enough to catch getting home from work or early enough to stop in the morning.  Hours are getting better all the time.  You can get pretty much anything you need in the City Market.  Someone selling milk and cheese would pretty much ice the cake.

[advocrat]

Riverbend?  Do you mean the project on the KCS railyard?

The KCS development is expected to begin physical construction in August.

2nd Street development/completion is a separate issue.  It is due to begin in about 45 days and be completed prior to the end of the year.

Yes, KCS railyard is what I meant. Got confused about what the official name of the project will be.

[WinchesterMysteryHouse]

There's a new cafe on the northern corner of Third + Delaware.  Bicycled by today and saw activity inside behind the 'closed' sign.  And high-five to that comment up above about the lack of utilitarian Crossroads businesses.  That Blues Gallery building would make an ideal marketplace.   

[warwickland]

10-20 years for it to be an ideal solution for produce and cooking supplies?  What would you change?  Some of the vendors are open every day, some late enough to catch getting home from work or early enough to stop in the morning.  Hours are getting better all the time.  You can get pretty much anything you need in the City Market.  Someone selling milk and cheese would pretty much ice the cake.

i really miss the city market, it's a HUGE asset to kc as it is. sadly, i didnt start frequenting it on a weekly basis until about three months before i moved. i think if i ever move back to kc, the river market would be where i'd want to be if i could easily afford something, otherwise a max ride is nothing. having something like the city market in your backyard is urban ideal!

[advocrat]

I mentioned on another thread my hope that a hotel along the lines of Courtyard/Hampton/Drury Inn would locate somewhere in the River Market. DaveKCMO replied with an answer about why he did not think that it was such a good idea.  My thoughts on this are that a hotel of that caliber would produce a noticeable level of tourist traffic, 7 days a week, if not 24/7.  This would add a level of demand for restaurants, and tourist retail, plus put more people on the streets and add to community visibility and reputation. All of this would produce a mutually beneficial element that I think would benefit the overall environment.

So this is my opinion; it differs from that of DaveKCMO, but I think has merit. There is plenty of infill possibilities in the River Market, and density there is a good thing. I would propose locating it somewhere along 5th street between Grand and Locust. It should be no more than a few blocks from City market.

[scooterj]

There's a new cafe on the northern corner of Third + Delaware.  Bicycled by today and saw activity inside behind the 'closed' sign. 

Where?  I live at 3rd & Delaware and I don't see anything. 

[Burton]

Advocrat, I agree with Dave. I think a bed & breakfast would work better.

[advocrat]

I have a Status and future of River Market area question.

Curiosity: Can anyone tell me what the change of residency in River Market has been in the last 5-6 years? With the lofts, etc., it seems impressive.