KCRag Forum

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It would be cool if KC's skyline had a 50 block continuity from the Plaza to Downtown. But...ya know, bluffs and all that shit.

Still, this is so exciting. I get to actually be alive and aware of a major skyline addition to my home city I love. A sort of beacon of identity for this new future (which is why it's almost symbolicin proximity tto PNL)

Fun times ahead. You know, as long as civilization doesn't collapse or some other big bummer

So until final design is finished is it still possible we'll end up with the 23 story building from the reports (about the same height as HR Bloch/One Light) instead of the confusing photoshop pic showing it to be around the same height as P&L?

kcjak wrote:So until final design is finished is it still possible we'll end up with the 23 story building from the reports (about the same height as HR Bloch/One Light) instead of the confusing photoshop pic showing it to be around the same height as P&L?

The renderings are accurate. The 23 story count is with out the 7 story base, and the 4-5 story grill thing on top. When they say 23 stories, they are referring to the hotel portion alone.

ldai_phs wrote:

kcjak wrote:So until final design is finished is it still possible we'll end up with the 23 story building from the reports (about the same height as HR Bloch/One Light) instead of the confusing photoshop pic showing it to be around the same height as P&L?

The renderings are accurate. The 23 story count is with out the 7 story base, and the 4-5 story grill thing on top. When they say 23 stories, they are referring to the hotel portion alone.

The base is only 5 stories??

JBmidtown wrote: Fun times ahead. You know, as long as civilization doesn't collapse or some other big bummer

Imma chant this.....

BTW, I just visited Liberty Memorial for my lunch break (how great is it to live in a city where you can escape downtown to a place like this, with that view, walk around and get back to the office in less than an hour...but i digress). After studying the skyline, I think that the new building will not block the P&L tower from the Liberty Memorial deck view at all. It will almost overlap and be very close to the edge of the P&L Building (and it will make this view it a little less beautiful IMO) but it will not block it at all. I was standing on the western part of the platform, too. The way the city faces the deck (basically parallel) helps. I'm sure the architects spent a lot of time making sure the P&L wouldn't be blocked. It's a pretty important landmark. If the tower was oriented with the N/S facade being the largest, it would definitely be bad...but they cut that part short. It will basically block the Crown Plaza which is ugly as hell anyway. Lets just hope this one doesn't end up looking like an enlarged Crown Plaza on the skyline!

Again, much attention needs to be given to those skinny N/S facades (which are probably the emergency stair towers)

I personally hate buildings that take up an entire block--like this project will--that have a mast tower with blank walls on two sides of the building. Surely, a hotel of this size can have four well-designed sides with windows facing in each direction.

I would prefer something like this.





Or this.

FangKC wrote:I personally hate buildings that take up an entire block--like this project will--that have a mast tower with blank walls on two sides of the building. Surely, a hotel of this size can have four well-designed sides with windows facing in each direction.

I would prefer something like this.






Or this.

Lol we all would prefer that, but our city is way too cheap to do anything like that. We have people complaining when we build anything.

if they cut it down to 20 something stories, something like that could be built in our city

mister816 wrote:if they cut it down to 20 something stories, something like that could be built in our city

We're not Oklahoma city, I don't see why we should only be able to build 20 story buildings. I think cerner made a huge mistake building in banister. Adding 16,000 jobs down town would have been huge huge huge. We will never have a company willing to do something like that.

bhedges1987 wrote:

mister816 wrote:if they cut it down to 20 something stories, something like that could be built in our city

We're not Oklahoma city, I don't see why we should only be able to build 20 story buildings. I think cerner made a huge mistake building in banister. Adding 16,000 jobs down town would have been huge huge huge. We will never have a company willing to do something like that.

Indeed. Cerner made the biggest mistake ever. And we want to talk about this hotel being a gamechanger, ha it would be absolutely nothing compared to Cerner. It's really too bad.

Demosthenes wrote:

bhedges1987 wrote:

mister816 wrote:if they cut it down to 20 something stories, something like that could be built in our city

We're not Oklahoma city, I don't see why we should only be able to build 20 story buildings. I think cerner made a huge mistake building in banister. Adding 16,000 jobs down town would have been huge huge huge. We will never have a company willing to do something like that.

Indeed. Cerner made the biggest mistake ever. And we want to talk about this hotel being a gamechanger, ha it would be absolutely nothing compared to Cerner. It's really too bad.

At least they built in KC and not in Kansas

bhedges1987 wrote:

FangKC wrote:I personally hate buildings that take up an entire block--like this project will--that have a mast tower with blank walls on two sides of the building. Surely, a hotel of this size can have four well-designed sides with windows facing in each direction.

I would prefer something like this.






Or this.

Lol we all would prefer that, but our city is way too cheap to do anything like that. We have people complaining when we build anything.

It's not as much that our city is cheap as it is just the reality of the market we are in. Typically you find buildings like these in markets where the owner is trying to do anything they can to stand out in a crowd. We know this isn't the case here in Kansas City, as this hotel is already going to be considered the crown jewel from day one. Would it be nice to get something that truly stands out and becomes a nationally recognizable structure? Of course, it would. But it wouldn't be a wise investment based on returns.

I agree with Fang about well designed sides with windows on all sides. Assuming no complete major re-design, the base does a good job of providing views in all directions being that it is L-shaped. Going up, it would be nice to see suites on the corners of the tower with windows on both outside walls rather than blank walls on the ends like the renderings show.

Had a chance to speak with a member of the architect team for this project last night...

He said that these renderings, while still current and quite accurate to the final project, are actually kind of old (some as old as two or three years). He said the design is not entirely final and that tweaks will be made. They are being hired by JE Dunn to do the project as a design-build yet they already have the general design. He also said changes will be made to the five story grill thing on top and hope to make it a much more signature feature.

In regard to the height, he said that even they don't entirely know tall it will be and that probably won't be concluded until sometime in the construction process. However, at the moment, he stated it would be around the height of a 30-35 story building but with final design tweaks it could be as tall as a 40 story building.

Finally, he said things are all organized to streamline this project to approval before the new council takes office. He looks forward to a early 2016 groundbreaking and it's very likely to see this completed in 2018.

I'm very glad to see that this project is finally coming along and that its been in the works for so long. I think we are going to get a great addition to the city.

JLowe2018 wrote:Had a chance to speak with a member of the architect team for this project last night...

He said that these renderings, while still current and quite accurate to the final project, are actually kind of old (some as old as two or three years). He said the design is not entirely final and that tweaks will be made. They are being hired by JE Dunn to do the project as a design-build yet they already have the general design. He also said changes will be made to the five story grill thing on top and hope to make it a much more signature feature.

In regard to the height, he said that even they don't entirely know tall it will be and that probably won't be concluded until sometime in the construction process. However, at the moment, he stated it would be around the height of a 30-35 story building but with final design tweaks it could be as tall as a 40 story building.

Finally, he said things are all organized to streamline this project to approval before the new council takes office. He looks forward to a early 2016 groundbreaking and it's very likely to see this completed in 2018.

I'm very glad to see that this project is finally coming along and that its been in the works for so long. I think we are going to get a great addition to the city.

NICE WORK!! Final design 40 stories would be really nice.

honestly, do these things ever meet or exceed initial expectations? i'm going to bet money on no more than 25 stories.

DaveKCMO wrote:honestly, do these things ever meet or exceed initial expectations? i'm going to bet money on no more than 25 stories.

There can be firsts

Yeah, too early as design is not finalized.

I do find it curious that many seem to think a convention hotel will be a major catalyst for downtown like increasing downtown population is. There is no guarantee this will bring more conventions - Denver/Indy initially got a boost from their convention hotels but convention biz is down for them as is nationwide. While I'm for more hotel rooms because DTKC is below normal for rooms in the Loop, this project is not necessarily as good investment for DTKC as boosting DT population. Increasing population is far more important and effective and once it hits critical mass, everything else is more likely to follow (with fewer incentives).

We know that there is demand for DT residential living with consistent occupancy over 97% that would likely maintain high occupancy even if adding 10K more units. DT also hit a major milestone of a waiting list for $2+/sqft luxury hirise living, which is a big deal. The more hotel rooms you have downtown, the harder it is to keep them filled (certainly won't be over 80% daily), especially with decreasing convention industry.

The pro development side of me is for this project but the pragmatic side would rather see KCMO pursue even more residential hirises than a convention class hotel. For now anyway, maybe when there are signs of convention industry returning.

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