KCRag Forum

To put that in perspective, the hotel across the street is 10 stories. The sporting building is 6.

It has one helluva cap and is on a slight incline so could appear to be about as tall as P&L. As mentioned, the 20 something floor count must not be including garage/lobby/event space base, but it is reasonable 800 room can be 20-something floors of hotel space given the L-shape for lower half. So maybe around 30-35 floors total, on an incline and tall cap.

earthling wrote:It has one helluva cap and is on a slight incline so could appear to be about as tall as P&L. As mentioned, the 20 something floor count must not be including garage/lobby/event space base, but it is reasonable 800 room can be 20-something floors of hotel space given the L-shape for lower half. So maybe around 30-35 floors total, on an incline and tall cap.

Thing is, that lower part with the L shape is not near half the building. Maybe 1/4 possibly even 1/5 since it's about half as wide. I'm counting 9 panes across. The top around 15.

I NEED FLOOR COUNTS!

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KC Star editorial
"The financing for the project deserves plenty of attention. As sketched out by City Manager Troy Schulte, it’s more reasonable than other, long-rumored hotel deals that would have asked city taxpayers to guarantee much of the bonds issued to pay for the projects.
Schulte said the city’s only direct financing would be $2 million annually for 25 years. And the money to do that is available: The city in the next year will finish paying for debt used to upgrade Kemper Arena in the mid-1990s.
Schulte made the good point that city financing for the hotel would not reduce or divert money for other crucial public services such as better public safety and tearing down abandoned housing. The $2 million would come from convention and visitor taxes that have to be used for convention-oriented purposes.
The city would provide land, which Schulte estimated is worth $13 million, for the project.
Stumbling blocks also exist.
Promoters want to put the project on a tight timetable, allowing the current City Council to approve the deal before members leave office July 31. Before then, the project would need to get through a few oversight agencies. The hotel’s backers plan to ask for a 100 percent tax increment financing plan that would divert all future sales and earnings taxes from City Hall back into the project. The hotel also wants to put in place an extra 1-cent sales tax on the site.
And the hotel operator wants to be the exclusive provider of catering for the Bartle ballroom for 15 years, which could get push-back from current providers.
The public will deserve answers over how much private investment is being poured into the project — and from whom. Legitimate questions over how a new 800-room structure might affect other convention hotels in town could pop up, too.
Advocates, led by Mayor Sly James, must be prepared to answer these questions openly and with detail that will help the public determine if this is truly a good deal for the city’s future."

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/edito ... rylink=cpy

Trying to squeeze this in before next election will be tricky, which they want to do since several council members can't run again. This will otherwise make the hotel bonds an election issue if many in KCMO don't support it. There's a chance this could get killed if not going to lame duck council in time.

Has anyone seen stats on range of outatowners coming to Sprint center events staying in hotels? With convention industry shrinking and many more cities competing for conventions than 30 years ago, there are valid reasons to question city bonds even if not too high. But the Loop is short on rooms compared to similar cities even w/out convention biz. On one hand KC has got to get out of subsidizing private projects outside of helping with infrastructure. OTOH, even during Denver's construction boom, the City had to help chip in ($350M?) for their convention hotel.

Here's some more info on them trying to get this pushed through Before Aug. 1

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... endly.html

joshmv wrote:Here's some more info on them trying to get this pushed through Before Aug. 1

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... endly.html

After reading that..... Why are they not making it bigger. That's what they want and need yet they aren't doing it.

bhedges1987 wrote:

joshmv wrote:Here's some more info on them trying to get this pushed through Before Aug. 1

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... endly.html

After reading that..... Why are they not making it bigger. That's what they want and need yet they aren't doing it.

They wanted to build a 1,000 room hotel, but had to scale back due to cost. They may still build bigger if they can get the money

bhedges1987 wrote:

joshmv wrote:Here's some more info on them trying to get this pushed through Before Aug. 1

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/n ... endly.html

After reading that..... Why are they not making it bigger. That's what they want and need yet they aren't doing it.

economics

Sit down and make a list of all the things that have to be done to build and then operate a hotel

Then figure how much money could come from the rooms

Then realize the more rooms the harder it is to fill them. So the hotel is less profitable.

So this means there's more risk to give the loan. Or the city has to put more money into the pot.

Take all those aspects and a very complex model likely knows the style of building, types of rooms and amenities mean for room prices, looks at every hotel in the company worldwide similar or not, has cost to build different structures and how much it costs to pay for financing certain levels

then take what the city is willing to put on the table and such

And you put that all together and you have a plan. And that's what we see today.

The result of years of work.

they were talking about a superbowl... To get a superbowl we'll need about 2 more of these downtown and one close to the stadium.

Irregardless of the the eventual actual floor count this is going to have a once in a century impact on the skyline. The limits of the loop skyline are about 85 years old. 909 Walnut was the northern terminus of the skyline, City Hall the eastern edge and the southern edge was the KCPL, further reinforced a few decades letter by the ATT longlines at Oak. All other major high rises subsequent went up within these boundaries including the big 3 post-moderns on 12th Street. This tower will move the skyline south and bring that separate Crown Center skyline a little closer to merging the two centers together. That this tower is 2 blocks south of KCPL with the Bartle pylons between, the breadth of the skyline will be expansive. The Hyatt will be a stand alone monolith when seen from 1-70 at the stadiums and make the skyline nearly contiguous with CC to the south. Likewise the effect coming east on 70 and 670 will yield a skyline from river to CC to the Fed to Park Place.

moderne wrote:Irregardless of the the eventual actual floor count this is going to have a once in a century impact on the skyline. The limits of the loop skyline are about 75 years old. 909 was the northern terminus of the skyline, City Hall the eastern edge and the southern edge was the KCPL further reinforced a few decades letter by the ATT longlines at OAk. All other major high rises subsequent went up within these boundarys including the big 3 post-moderns on 12th Street. This tower will move the skyline south and bring that separate Crown Center skyline a little closer to merging the two centers together. That this tower is 2 blocks south of KCPL with the Bartle pylons between the breadth of the skyline will be expansive. The Hyatt will be a stand alone monolith when seen from 1-70 at the stadiums and make the skyline nearly contiguous with CC to the south. Likewise the effect coming east on 70 and 670 wil yield a skyline from river to CC to the Fed to PArk Place.

Your making me excited. Now let's Hope this actually happens.

This is why the design is so important. Of course we don't want to drain the city of money, but this is going to make such a huge impact on our (cuttently beautiful and very cemetrical) skyline. I really wish they would think about the top a little more. This building needs a crown. Keep with the neo-deco theme we have going. It can be very modern and A-symmetrical still...but please not just a big box with some shitty 50s tile along a blank facade facing north.

How about a crown like the Capella Tower in Minneapolis?

Midtownkid wrote:Keep with the neo-deco theme we have going. It can be very modern and A-symmetrical still...but please not just a big box with some shitty 50s tile along a blank facade facing north.

I wholly agree with this sentiment

I was thinking a cap that complements the convention center pylons.

What comes to mind when i look at the rendering is the screen on the New York Times tower in NYC. You see glimpses of it used to screen the top of the building, as well as balcony railing at the garden level, and again as a decorative glazing screen on the lower retail/restaurant/pre-convention levels.

Ah, a project of this scale makes it feel like the halcyon days of 2004-2008 - just totally exciting to see something like this announced among the other smaller projects that are continuing around it.

A lot of interesting topics brought up in this thread that we haven't had to seriously think about for some time - the alteration of the skyline and the style of a building that will impact it for years to come as the chief example. I would have preferred for this building to go up in the loop, next to P&L, but the majority city-owned Hereford site is a nice alternative, and I love the proximity to the PAC and ballroom, plus the hill.

I do worry this could turn out to be a bit of a bland box a la many other similar projects nationwide. Hopefully it sticks fairly close to the renderings as I love the massing and vertically as proposed, along with the use of glass and contemporary design.

I hope that this hotel is the beginning of another sustained boom for downtown, rather than the feather in our development cap. We STILL desperately need new corporate, retail, and entertainment uses - downtown can't continue to see development of apartments and hotel rooms exclusively. This isn't remotely a complaint (yet), but I'd like to see continued investment in the "reasons" for people to come downtown, too. JOBS, trails, museums, unique retail.