KCRag Forum

I don't know uber pickup will be in the garage but we'd be idiots not to

What we have now is the worst case scenario

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:57 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:35 pm Why would it get backed up? We will be removing departure traffic and bus (rental car and economy) traffic out and I'd assume Ubers as well. Also we now have 700 plus feet of curb line. That's about the same as half of one of the current terminal circles curb line.

From the experience I’ve had at Austin’s airport, which has a similar system for their arrivals, I’m mostly bracing for the worst. As long as we have a dedicated ride share/Taxi pickup spot we should only have to worry about POV traffic. This is definitely a situation where I hope I’m wrong.

Number of curb feet doesn't really matter. People will be coming out at ie. gate 14 and all the cars will be crowding around that gate. Most airports put lanes deep with islands so people can meet at the certain gate and just walk out to waiting car at island.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:39 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:57 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:35 pm Why would it get backed up? We will be removing departure traffic and bus (rental car and economy) traffic out and I'd assume Ubers as well. Also we now have 700 plus feet of curb line. That's about the same as half of one of the current terminal circles curb line.

From the experience I’ve had at Austin’s airport, which has a similar system for their arrivals, I’m mostly bracing for the worst. As long as we have a dedicated ride share/Taxi pickup spot we should only have to worry about POV traffic. This is definitely a situation where I hope I’m wrong.

Number of curb feet doesn't really matter. People will be coming out at ie. gate 14 and all the cars will be crowding around that gate. Most airports put lanes deep with islands so people can meet at the certain gate and just walk out to waiting car at island.

You mean baggage carousels? Those are spread the length of the level. Either way ou are still going to be able to use more of the curb than immediately outside of that specific carousel by saying "meet me at column 5" even if your baggage comes out closer to column 3. It for sure will help. We don't even deplane that many at once.

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:49 pm You mean baggage carousels? Those are spread the length of the level. Either way ou are still going to be able to use more of the curb than immediately outside of that specific carousel by saying "meet me at column 5" even if your baggage comes out closer to column 3. It for sure will help. We don't even deplane that many at once.

Yes, every car will try to line up outside the luggage carousel. We don’t walk in America. People will circle forever at Walmart to get a closer spot.

Has... has anyone else in Kansas City been to a similarly sized, recently constructed (within the last 20 years) airport terminal before? People, this works in other cities. It will work here. Not every Kansas Citian is an Unfrozen Cave Man Flyer.

"Your terminal building frightens and confuses me..."

It's not like som is new at this either. I'm going to give them three benefit of the doubt here.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:41 pm

KCPowercat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:49 pm You mean baggage carousels? Those are spread the length of the level. Either way ou are still going to be able to use more of the curb than immediately outside of that specific carousel by saying "meet me at column 5" even if your baggage comes out closer to column 3. It for sure will help. We don't even deplane that many at once.

Yes, every car will try to line up outside the luggage carousel. We don’t walk in America. People will circle forever at Walmart to get a closer spot.

My mother was the opposite. She parked further away so she could find a spot where it wasn't likely other cars might park near hers because she didn't want people banging their doors into the side of her car.

Sani wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:57 pm Has... has anyone else in Kansas City been to a similarly sized, recently constructed (within the last 20 years) airport terminal before? People, this works in other cities. It will work here. Not every Kansas Citian is an Unfrozen Cave Man Flyer.

For most people, the answer would be a resounding NO. There's been very few new terminals built in the US in that timeframe.
Of the ones I can find, most are dedicated to international service so people from KC would transfer inside the airport to them. There could be more in smaller airports but the list is very short and the smaller the airport the less chance someone from KC has been to it.

New Orleans- 2019

Minneapolis Terminal 2- 2001

Atlanta's international terminal- 2012

JFK international terminal 4- 2001

Las Vegas Terminal 3- 2012

Dallas international terminal D- 2005

^^Austin?

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:37 am ^^Austin?

South Terminal was from the Air Force base
Main terminal opened in 1999

^^ Indianapolis ~ 2008

I might also include Dallas Love Field, which was a very heavy rehab and basically built a new terminal, though did appear to keep much of the surrounding infrastructure.

I share the same confidence in SOM and the planning of this terminal. Assuming it will be a major improvement on the existing layout and a largely similar experience to other modern, single terminal designs with split arrivals/departures.

I will say I can see the worry that the arrivals experience will be too dark and bunker like, but I feel that way about most other "exit from baggage carousel under roadway into garage" type designs as well. Hope they an get some light and greenery down there, as in the renderings. The public art selections may help dramatically as well.

I would count Dallas Love since they tore down the old terminal.

8 isn't that big on the scale of 120+ airports people from KC fly to. Panama City is the smallest city with a direct flight from KC and it was the 118th largest airport in 2019 by enplanements.

I would argue people need to see the experience of picking up luggage and returning after a trip to be a fair comparison. A connecting flight is not the same experience as a KC resident would receive at our home airport.

And even on that list of destinations, not all will likely go outside the terminal

None of the airlines in LAS T3 have a flight to KC from that airport.
The international terminals are likely to be heavy on connections

leaving these four as likely whole experiences. We have direct flights from KC to three of them.
New Orleans
Indianapolis
Dallas Love
Minneapolis

Any chance the airport opens ahead of schedule before March 2023?

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:09 pm New pictures posted to the FB page. The arrivals pick up area looks depressing and dark, and roadway looks like it’ll get backed up with more than two flights arriving at same time. Two things I was initially afraid wouldn’t be done right seemed to have not been done right..

I thought that right away as well. I just didn't say anything, since everybody already thinks all I do is criticize KC lol.

The approaches to both arrivals and departures is going to be congested especially since the garage is literally on top the terminal and most people will be walking across the lanes of traffic to access the garage and apparently even the shuttle buses etc (which I find really inefficient and not normal).

Also, the departure and arrival roads are not really long enough from where they split, so that means that when arrivals is busy and the roadway backs up, it will probably also block the departures roadway and visa versa. I say that because at BWI, I often use the departures level when arrivals is busy and vise versa.

BWI is set up very similar to the new KCI, only it has three terminals about the size of KCI's new one wrapping around a garage. BWI backs up a long ways from the terminal during peak times and it has more lanes and separation and you can't access the garage without using skybridges, so traffic is not really obstructed. Plus all airport buses pick up at the curb at most airports including BWI. KCI will have a lot of people crossing those lanes.

I really do think this will be a problem for the new terminal. They are going to have to have a ton of cops out there trying to keep things clear and people moving all the time.

To be fair, if they made it wider wouldn’t people be complaining that the walk from parking to gate is “so much longer than the old airport! I sure loved the old terminal. -snark- -snark-“

GRID wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:38 pm

Anthony_Hugo98 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:09 pm New pictures posted to the FB page. The arrivals pick up area looks depressing and dark, and roadway looks like it’ll get backed up with more than two flights arriving at same time. Two things I was initially afraid wouldn’t be done right seemed to have not been done right..

The approaches to both arrivals and departures is going to be congested especially since the garage is literally on top the terminal and most people will be walking across the lanes of traffic to access the garage and apparently even the shuttle buses etc (which I find really inefficient and not normal).

I suspect KCI will have to spend a large sum of money at some point in the not too distant future to fix the problem of not having some kind of access to the terminal from the parking garage without crossing through traffic. It will cost considerably more than and be less efficient than building it into the original plan. I was alarmed when I saw that was the plan. The congestion you point out is only one of the problems. The other is the safety aspect of having a large number of pedestrians pulling baggage and with kids interacting running the gauntlet of drivers who have just dropped off or picked up passengers.

beautyfromashes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:54 pm To be fair, if they made it wider wouldn’t people be complaining that the walk from parking to gate is “so much longer than the old airport! I sure loved the old terminal. -snark- -snark-“

Yes and that's why the new terminal and garage are crammed into such a small area. You are just going to have a ton of pedestrians crossing the lanes the way it is designed. That combined with the relatively narrow lanes and short approaches is likely going to create problems.

I think a lot of those problems can be fixed later, I guess, like adding ped bridges from the garage to the arrivals level of the headhouse and extending or widening the approach roads.

Also, all airport buses (satellite parking, rental car facility and taxi should pick up the curb. The only people that should have to drag their luggage across the lanes is hotel shuttles, etc and probably urber since ubers are always a freaking mess if they are even allowed at the airport curbs at all.

Somehow KCI today manages to make it work despite very minimal traffic in the below ground tubes. Peer airports are set up similar to our new terminal and make it work.

normalthings wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:08 pm Somehow KCI today manages to make it work despite very minimal traffic in the below ground tubes. Peer airports are set up similar to our new terminal and make it work.

Yeah there is a LOT of fearmongering going on in this thread given KCI's traffic.

I feel like every airport I have been to is set up at the arrival level exactly like new the terminal. The one difference maybe there are a couple more lanes away from the terminal but those are always filled with shuttle buses that are moving to the garage instead here. Same/same.