KCRag Forum

kcjak wrote:So is there a maximum of 10 miles available for the expansion or is that just a guideline that could stretch to a few more miles after the studies are complete? I'm confused about whether a 5 mile line could go south and then only have an additional 5 miles to split between the other two routes.

from the committee video the feel I got is the 8-10 miles isn't the end goal, it's KC's sweet spot on getting enough local funding to make going to the state and feds a realistic situation and to get enough to actually build. like imagine if we hold an election in June 2014 and $42 million of money from Cincinnati is up for grabs that summer. KC is on top of it's game and is suddenly in the running for it.

as far as length, there's one really good point made by Russ Johnson on expansions. that once a corridor is started, adding a stop worth of distance is way easier. that it's the initial hurdle that's a pain to get over, you need something in place to work with. for me this says the sweet spot on expansion is getting the right initial length so the line gets used. you don't want to put in a one mile line on Indep Aveto get to 85th and Wornall on another. better to have a more balanced approach to the distances

flyingember wrote:

kcjak wrote:So is there a maximum of 10 miles available for the expansion or is that just a guideline that could stretch to a few more miles after the studies are complete? I'm confused about whether a 5 mile line could go south and then only have an additional 5 miles to split between the other two routes.

from the committee video the feel I got is the 8-10 miles isn't the end goal, it's KC's sweet spot on getting enough local funding to make going to the state and feds a realistic situation and to get enough to actually build. like imagine if we hold an election in June 2014 and $42 million of money from Cincinnati is up for grabs that summer. KC is on top of it's game and is suddenly in the running for it.

as far as length, there's one really good point made by Russ Johnson on expansions. that once a corridor is started, adding a stop worth of distance is way easier. that it's the initial hurdle that's a pain to get over, you need something in place to work with. for me this says the sweet spot on expansion is getting the right initial length so the line gets used. you don't want to put in a one mile line on Indep Aveto get to 85th and Wornall on another. better to have a more balanced approach to the distances

Yea, I think KC may be ahead of the curve with streetcars and could really have a nice system up and running in 5-10 years. Good to see them looking at expanding in all directions (northeast, east and south) while the NKC extension could be doing it's own thing.

It's a good thing Jackson County didn't pass that research tax. May still have just enough room in sales tax for a transit tax if needed.

GRID wrote:ood to see them looking at expanding in all directions (northeast, east and south) while the NKC extension could be doing it's own thing.

This attitude will lead KC to failure. one part of the city doing it's own thing needs to be something of the past.

transit is the perfect place to begin at the long process on discussing economic development as a region, not as individual cities each with their own plan. we can't be segregated as a city any longer.

and if the best place is starting with NKC, that's the perfect place to do so. they bring much to the table KC needs in the terms of blue collar jobs and KC brings experience for potential partnerships with NKC they couldn't otherwise afford, the dog park under construction is one such partnership.

flyingember wrote:

GRID wrote:ood to see them looking at expanding in all directions (northeast, east and south) while the NKC extension could be doing it's own thing.

This attitude will lead KC to failure. one part of the city doing it's own thing needs to be something of the past.

transit is the perfect place to begin at the long process on discussing economic development as a region, not as individual cities each with their own plan. we can't be segregated as a city any longer.

and if the best place is starting with NKC, that's the perfect place to do so. they bring much to the table KC needs in the terms of blue collar jobs and KC brings experience for potential partnerships with NKC they couldn't otherwise afford, the dog park under construction is one such partnership.

My opinion, NKC is an awesome community, but it is questionable as a partner in development. They have depleted revenues (from Harrah's) and don't seem to have creative solutions to recreate themselves and/or to expand their revenue streams. They need leadership that is going to step up and take the town to the opportunities that surround them. So far though, it is not happening.

Hope they can prove me wrong.

NKC actually is big in development

where else can you find a city owned hospital in the region? and the city decisively voted out the people involved with the sale process.

they own the single largest undeveloped and already cleared parcel that can be reached by the streetcar within the next 20 years. that could change what decisions are made with it. it's a shovel ready project.

they got 94 people at that meeting, the community is engaged. that would be like having 10,000 people go to the KC events in terms of scale. NKC is only around 4200 people.

and they voted yes in 2008. and we've discussed it before how it needs to be figured out if it can be redone for the streetcar, but that TDD is technically still on the books

NKC is a sleeping giant, IMO. It's downtown-adjacent, has accredited schools and though landlocked it still has significant build-able parcels as flyingember mentioned. It has potential to densify existing development, as well. Some of the underutilized industrial areas south of Armour could be candidates for mixed-use development in the future. With the Armour corridor it already has a walkable center and what is built out is almost all on a street grid--no disconnected dead octopus streets. The new developments on the north end of the city are promising. If the river crossing can be handled in an acceptable manner, a streetcar line could be the match that lights the fire if the leadership is there.

This has probably been discussed somewhere, and it is pie in the sky considering the lack of cooperation between cities, but it would be great to eventually see the line expanded into JOCO, possibly down Metcalf. I dislike the suburbs and JOCO as much as any of you, but the reality is that a lot of JOCOers travel downtown for work. It is many years away, but has anything like this been discussed?

.

to reiterate the details for this corridor in the initial consultant report:

- independence avenue via columbus park to benton boulevard
- $129 million capital cost (2019 dollars), including engineering, environmental, and design ($5.94 cost per rider)
- 15 minute headways, requiring 2 vehicles, $2,288,000 annual operational cost ($1.60 cost per rider)
- no significant steep grades, no at-grade rail crossings, little or no impact to parking
- bridge over I-29 has excess capacity
- would impact sanitary sewer line
- developer interest ranked "medium" (12th and main street corridors ranked higher)
- KCUMB is the major trip generator
- existing #24 route generate 1,527 daily boardings in the corridor (streetcar estimate is 1,880)
- converting existing #24 into streetcar feeder would reduce KCATA operating cost
- 12,300 population (6,827/sq mi) / 3,200 jobs
- 27% of population is transit dependent

mgh7676 wrote:This has probably been discussed somewhere, and it is pie in the sky considering the lack of cooperation between cities, but it would be great to eventually see the line expanded into JOCO, possibly down Metcalf. I dislike the suburbs and JOCO as much as any of you, but the reality is that a lot of JOCOers travel downtown for work. It is many years away, but has anything like this been discussed?

KCK seems like a given someday. I wouldn't count out the old NE JoCo suburbs. Mission, Roeland Park are good candidates.

I could see Independence jump on board as this specific line gets closer. the area around Van Horn HS is very similar to parts of the east side.

pash wrote: If a streetcar crosses the river, the near part of North Kansas City will compete with the West Bottoms to be the next Crossroads.

There's actually a smarter direction for NKC, and that's to becomes a light industry tech and engineering hub. the very type of jobs that residents along Indep Ave would hugely benefit from having nearby. we talk about the jobs of tomorrow and workers getting valuable next gen jobs skills, and this would drive that.

One thing that would be painful for NKC is to lose the large block design. Look at how hard it is to put a parcel back together downtown once it fragments.

look at Apple bringing back electronics production to the US. NKC would be smart to connect with companies building the next tech gadget like Pebble, Node, blue tooth glucose monitors and car odb systems and such to have their R&D facilities in KC.

in engineering downtown has HNTB and JE Dunn. Having the headquarters for the related companies building the next gen building control systems, advanced materials and such would be a huge coup. Those two companies already work nationally and we want the companies they go to for products to be based out of KC.

advanced energy companies. we want to bring a major wind power design firm to KC. a place they can design and build. we want a geothermal energy company. we want to bring a battery technology company. having one nearby could bring electric vehicle companies, we have Smith Electric Vehicles, let's bring another. The Hardesty Complex would be a wonderful place for electric automotive production for a next gen urban car sharing network

flyingember wrote:Mission, Roeland Park are good candidates.

no one should expect any city in johnson county to jump on the streetcar wagon anytime soon. none of them have any density to support value capture (TDD), they need state authorization for new citywide or countywide taxes (assuming they're willing to ask), and there's hardly any existing ridership to build on. also, none of these places have land use -- today or future -- that would support meaningful transit lines. mission is the only one that has the political will, but that's hanging on by a thread. even if you could get mission or roeland park to sign on you still have to go through a handful of fiefdoms (fairway, westwood, mission woods -- maybe KCK if you take a different route) to get there.

johnson county squandered the only chance they had at rail transit by killing I-35 commuter rail. instead, we got peak-only bus-on-shoulder and a massive subsidy for BNSF's multimodal facility.

back to independence avenue...

the next round of community workshops will be in february. initial study ends in march.

ordinance #140017 introduced yesterday to form the phase 2 TDD. joint council committee meeting will review. could be in circuit court as early as this month.

project was added to the region's long-range transportation plan yesterday, which allows it to advance for federal funding.

next public meeting on this corridor is thursday feb. 27 at the don bosco senior center: http://nextrailkc.com/final-round-of-co ... announced/

people really need to stop lying about KC's lack of population density. here are the 2010 census tracts along independence avenue:

DaveKCMO wrote:people really need to stop lying about KC's lack of population density. here are the 2010 census tracts along independence avenue:

Thanks for sharing and I believe FUD is in full swing via the opposition.

Pork Chop wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:people really need to stop lying about KC's lack of population density. here are the 2010 census tracts along independence avenue:

Thanks for sharing and I believe FUD is in full swing via the opposition.

What?

chingon wrote:

Pork Chop wrote:

DaveKCMO wrote:people really need to stop lying about KC's lack of population density. here are the 2010 census tracts along independence avenue:

Thanks for sharing and I believe FUD is in full swing via the opposition.

What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_unce ... _and_doubt