KCRag Forum

How can I be gloating over a winner than I didn't vote for and have no way of knowing what kind of president he'll be? That would be some pretty lame gloating. Am I happy Hillary lost? Yes, because I hate Hillary. Am I happy Trump won? No, because I hate Trump. Do I wish the other candidates could have done better? Absolutely. But I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't have any room to gloat.

Regardless of anyone's immediate attitudes about Trump as president-elect, having lived in NYC for 10 years watching Trump's antics regularly, I have a feeling that he's going to wear thin with most Americans fairly quickly.

Hopefully not for 2 years at least. Pence worries me way more than Trump ever will.

Pretty sure Pence is running the show. Or, rather, will be running the country while Trump puts on a show. Trump has never particularly cared about abortion and didn't campaign on it, but now it has apparently become a top priority. Smells like Pence to me.

AllThingsKC wrote:How can I be gloating over a winner than I didn't vote for and have no way of knowing what kind of president he'll be? That would be some pretty lame gloating. Am I happy Hillary lost? Yes, because I hate Hillary. Am I happy Trump won? No, because I hate Trump. Do I wish the other candidates could have done better? Absolutely. But I don't have a dog in this fight, so I don't have any room to gloat.

You do realize your post is still there, right? It's all written down. This isn't argument isn't even interesting at this point, if it ever was.

You don't handle losing very well, do you?

I don't appreciate white dudes with essentially nothing on the line treating this like it's a football game, in light of the very real stakes that exist:

https://www.yahoo.com/beauty/trump-win- ... 03585.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hou ... n=politics
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/gra ... -freshmen/
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/us/re ... ction.html
http://boingboing.net/2016/11/11/hitler ... about.html
https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrul ... .obgZZ9BM9
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Tr ... 88871.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/acts-of-inti ... 12138.html
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/middle-sc ... 39070.html

And it took all of like 45 seconds to come up with that list of links. If you had any amount of empathy for people who aren't like you, you might realize how grave this actually is.

You don't handle losing very well, do you?

Tell me why I should

Because Hillary asked you to.

So? I'd like to see you make a robust argument that it's ok for the next president to be a white nationalist and we should all handle that well

phuqueue, I love, Love, LOVE your passion for politics. I love your passion to stand up for those who are under-represented. Never, never lose that passion. It's what we need! But you seem to be worried about things that haven't happened yet, and they *may* not happen at all.

Is it ok for the next president to be a white nationalist? No. Is it ok to "handle that well"? No. When the time comes that Trump something racist or sexiest or something (take your pick), then I'll join the protests. But right now, the left is just mad that they lost a democratic election. It happens. If Trump is that bad, the Left will win major elections in 2 and 4 years. But, right now, Trump hasn't done anything as president-elect worth protesting. I suspect that he will once he is in office. That's when I'll join. But there is a small chance Trump might surprise me. So I won't worry about it until it happens.

ATKC, from a political standpoint I tend to agree with you, but if I was a woman or a minority I'd be terrified. It's surprisingly easy to tell who's a white male on the internet these days.

As I have told others for the sake of this country I hope Trump succeeds. My fear is he won't.

When Obama got elected, my conservative friends said "he's going to take our guns away and close Gitmo." Eight years later, none of that happened.

Why should women and minorities "be terrified" right now? All of the women are going to be raped and forced to keep their babies? All minorities are going to be deported? Come on. Abortion is safe. It will never be illegal and the wall will likely never be built. Stop giving into the fear mongering. Wait for something to actually happen, then be pissed off about it.

Here's a video of how I feel about the election results, in comedy form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPLQh70GNrA This is why I laugh at the left (despite not voting for Trump myself) and I'm not in full panic mode.... yet.

What many white people (especially white men) don't appear to understand, since election day. is that because of how the Republican nominee, and now president-elect, has behaved during the campaign; the things he has said; and now some of the people he is surrounding himself with as appointees in his government, many of our fellow citizens (racial minorities, immigrants, refugees, Muslims, women, gays, lesbians, and transgendered people) are feeling very vulnerable and afraid. Many of them are already afraid of the police--even before Trump entered the presidential race. Some of them are already protesting. They are not only upset by the president-elect, they are upset by some of the behavior of his supporters towards them already--and he hasn't been sworn in.

White people also have to understand that many black parents are terrified of their children having any type of encounter with the police.

Many people go through their day and life without worrying about certain basic things. Not everyone has that luxury. In many parts of the country, LGBTs can still be legally fired for who they are, or be denied housing. Those are two basic things that people need to survive--a job and a home. That community also just recently won the right to legally marry in all 50 states. Many states still restrict adoption, and attempt to deny gay parents custody or visitation. An alcoholic parent might be awarded custody of children before a gay, nonalcoholic parent.

In my early career after college, I was fired just because my boss suspected I was gay. I had never told him, or given any indication to him that I was. He didn't tell me that was why he was "laying me off," but his secretary later told me that is why he did. I was unemployed for almost a year afterwards, and suffered a terrible period of financial strife and insecurity. It was a life-altering experience, and it caused me to be hyper-vigilant and mistrustful of employers for many years afterwards.

One doesn't even have to be gay or lesbian to be fired. It can happen if you are suspected to be.

Women and racial minorities cannot be denied housing or a job. LGBTs can in many areas of the country.

LGBT communities are even treated differently by police in many places. They don't get taken seriously when they report a crime, or have been assaulted.

These communities are afraid for legitimate reasons.

I grew up in rural NW Missouri 20 miles from where a transgendered person was murdered. A movie was made about it called Boys Don't Cry. I have close personal friends who have been gay-bashed on the streets just walking home, and who were hospitalized.

I am old enough to remember racial riots during the 1960s and 70s, and remember police gunning down college protesters during the Vietnam War at Kent State.

When I worked in Arizona state government in the late 80s, the sitting governor announced he wanted state agencies to prepare a list of homosexual state employees for the purpose of firing them. It would have been perfectly legal for him to do it. Fortunately, before he could, he was impeached for committing fraud by loaning campaign donations to himself to his Pontiac dealership.

When I lived in New York City during the Giuliani Adminstration, Giuliani promoted racial profiling and stop-and-frisk. During his administration, police officers arrested, beat, and anally-raped a Haitan immigrant with a broken off broom handle. That was one of many examples of police brutality during his administration. Many minorities became afraid to be out on the street at night. I had black and latino friends who were frequently stopped and questioned for just walking home from work late at night. During his administration, Giuliani also targeted gay nightclubs for closure.

Giuliani was accused by many during his administration for racist policies. He diverted public school money from poor minority districts to middle class ones. Test scores declined during his administration, and he left the school district in debt.

He targeted the homeless, and closed several homeless shelters, and did major street and park sweeps to remove homeless people from view.

An example, Giuliani was sued for civil liberties violations 26 times during his administration, and he lost 22 of the cases.

Giuliani became more and more vindictive over his administration. He would seek to punish people and groups who opposed him.

People remember Giuliani as "America's mayor" but that was at the very end of his second term. Before 9/11, he had become so controversial that most New Yorkers had grown tired of him. He then ran for the Senate against Hillary Clinton, but dropped out. During that same period, he openly ran around with another woman during his marriage, and announced his divorce on television--before he had notified his then wife. She was left publicly-humiliated. It was a big scandal at the time in NYC. This was among the reasons he dropped out of the Senate race.

I didn't start out hating Giuliani. However, I can honestly say he worked hard to earn my disgust of him.

I have watched him over the years doing TV interviews, and I can say that he's gotten worse--more authoritarian and punitive.

He is among the people Trump is considering for posts in his administration. Pence has a long record of anti-gay sentiments. Trump appears to be considering other anti-gay staff as well.

So the LGBT community is rightly concerned what the future brings--because they have been down this road before. Since the candidate himself made many controversial remarks in his past, and during the campaign, many have fear of what he, and his appointees will attempt to do once they have their hands on power.

Several of his possible appointees have long histories of vindictive streaks. Trump himself has a history of retribution against anyone who he doesn't like, or feels slighted by. We have seen this behavior before in other countries, during the Nixon administration, and the McCarthy Era.

In fact, Roy Cohn was a minion of Joseph McCarthy, and he is reported to have been one of Trump's early mentors.

FangKC wrote: Many of them are already afraid of the police--even before Trump entered the presidential race.

And who was president when Trump entered the race? If minorities were feeling afraid while Obama was president, is there any wonder why Trump won?

As far as the LGBT community goes, Trump said at the GOP convention that he supported gay rights. So, I'm not worried about the LGBT losing their rights or slowing down progress.... yet. (Again, nobody can be sure of exactly what kind of president Trump will be since he has no track record.) Now, if something happens to Trump and Pence takes office, it's a whole new ballgame. But in the mean time, I'm not going to live in fear for what MIGHT or MIGHT NOT happen. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

It's easy to make a statement like that when your rights are not at stake.

Everybody's rights are at stake.

Terrified of what some Trump supporters, who may now feel empowered, might do.

AllThingsKC wrote:When Obama got elected, my conservative friends said "he's going to take our guns away and close Gitmo." Eight years later, none of that happened.

Why should women and minorities "be terrified" right now? All of the women are going to be raped and forced to keep their babies? All minorities are going to be deported? Come on. Abortion is safe. It will never be illegal and the wall will likely never be built. Stop giving into the fear mongering. Wait for something to actually happen, then be pissed off about it.

Here's a video of how I feel about the election results, in comedy form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPLQh70GNrA This is why I laugh at the left (despite not voting for Trump myself) and I'm not in full panic mode.... yet.